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 Misconceptions of the Fallen.

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Lucifer

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PostSubject: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:28 am

Has anybody here ever thought that our "fall" wasn't because we refuted God, but because we needed to take physical form in this realm to help others?  

I think we fell from heaven because we literally were falling into the void.  I question the true meaning of "the fall," because the truth is being hidden from us.  I don't think we fell from grace.  I think our purpose was to bring light to the abyss.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:59 am

Hmm, I've never personally thought about it like that, no. Most of us have expressed at some point in time that the Fall was a traumatic, painful event that continues to wreak a negative effect in our human lives.  It sounds like we have very different perceptions of what the Fall is.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:19 am

My fall was by choice, my recent returning was to find my past, but I left once again to realize I left a corrupt place. Both my leavings were traumatic and now I see leaving was for the best.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:26 pm

Most of us at the time did not see or feel a ulterior motive but were enmeshed in both anger and revenge! However, some of us did accept the fall in hopes that it would further help mankind in it's ultimate evolution to the next level of awareness!

Ousa Like a Star @ heaven

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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:54 pm

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It sounds like we have very different perceptions of what the Fall is.

Indeed, there are many perceptions.And while i don't recall any details of my fall or the actual reason, i'm pretty sure i didn't fell because i wanted to reincarnate as a human to help or guide them.I feel drawn to helping or guiding others, but i'm also here to learn something myself or make my own experiences.

But before i reincarnated as a human, i've had non-human lives too; among the Sidhè, to be exact.Why i started to reincarnate as a human is yet unclear to me, but i think it was mostly for myself.
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Ousa

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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:08 am

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Why i started to reincarnate as a human is yet unclear to me, but i think it was mostly for myself.

Your clarity will come soon enough when the time is right.

Being human is the final rung before evolving to the next level of things, so certainly you did the best thing both for yourself and for humanity as a whole!

There are still many souls out there waiting not so patiently to incarnate for the first time as a human.  I take my humanity very seriously, doesn't mean I don't make mistakes but I most certainly will learn and benefit from them whether I like it or not, I'm here for the home run.  

Namaste

Ousa Like a Star @ heaven
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:10 am

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Your clarity will come soon enough when the time is right.

Being human is the final rung before evolving to the next level of things, so certainly you did the best thing both for yourself and for humanity as a whole!

I hope so.Thank you, Ousa Smile
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Azaz'el
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:18 pm

Each individual members memory is unique to them and no one can question or refute what they did, and why they fell. But for me, and for many of the Fallen Shadow who were Grigori, our Fall wasn't to bring enlightenment to the abyss but as punishment for breaking rules that were twisted so that those who held power could continue to hold power. Our evolution... the process of awakening ... changed our connection to the Source, showing us that all had to awaken and grow. But those who opposed this saw our actions as being evil and so hunted us down, began the War and murdered every one of us... almost. Each Being, each Race, all Kin who fell, went through this process for reasons unique to them.

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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:35 am

I absolutely acknowledge that everyone's perception, memories, motives and means of processing the fall are different. It was such a huge event, that almost tore apart the fabric of the universe. It was such a horrendous, traumatic, senseless event, I find it difficult to understand why anyone would choose it.

True, we knew it was coming, or at least that something was coming. Would we have done the same if we'd known how bad the punishment would be? No. I have no doubt about that. If I knew what my lover and friends were risking I would never have stayed and helped bring that down on them. However, that's different than saying we chose it - any of us.

However..... I remember my last meeting with Lucifer, and I've talked to Az about it before. I didn't know him very well, but I had a conversation with him, when he gave me something to keep for Az. He knew Az was going to be mad with him because he'd chosen to go without him. I'm not sure where he was going or what he was going to do, but that was very definitely by choice. Lucifer's fall, at least, was consensual. I can't begin to guess what his motives were.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:56 am

Ishtahar wrote:
I absolutely acknowledge that everyone's perception, memories, motives and means of processing the fall are different. It was such a huge event, that almost tore apart the fabric of the universe. It was such a horrendous, traumatic, senseless event, I find it difficult to understand why anyone would choose it.

True, we knew it was coming, or at least that something was coming. Would we have done the same if we'd known how bad the punishment would be? No. I have no doubt about that. If I knew what my lover and friends were risking I would never have stayed and helped bring that down on them. However, that's different than saying we chose it - any of us.

However..... I remember my last meeting with Lucifer, and I've talked to Az about it before. I didn't know him very well, but I had a conversation with him, when he gave me something to keep for Az. He knew Az was going to be mad with him because he'd chosen to go without him. I'm not sure where he was going or what he was going to do, but that was very definitely by choice. Lucifer's fall, at least, was consensual. I can't begin to guess what his motives were.


Now that has me rethinking of couple of things, since I did choose to fall and supposedly (by supposedly I mean "I can't believe this until more information is dug up) a certain former Shadow had something to do with a plan. I remember choosing to do so...but the pain was soul-shattering, physically and emotionally. I still don't know why we choose to (because I have the feeling I might've Fallen around the same time Lucifer did), but looking back at it I pray it wasn't in vain.

Ugh... now this topic has me thinking way too much. My head hurts confused Question
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:42 pm

I do remember fighting along side Lu and the others, but I was one of the many that escaped the "prison" in heaven. I didn't follow those that followed Lu rather I went and healed before entering the incarnation cycle first life at that becoming an Elven.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:17 am

Ishtahar wrote:
However..... I remember my last meeting with Lucifer, and I've talked to Az about it before. I didn't know him very well, but I had a conversation with him, when he gave me something to keep for Az. He knew Az was going to be mad with him because he'd chosen to go without him. I'm not sure where he was going or what he was going to do, but that was very definitely by choice. Lucifer's fall, at least, was consensual. I can't begin to guess what his motives were.

Ish,

Seriously what you wrote there struck a nerve with me.  I think it might be a piece to the puzzle.  I have to find the link, but I read a story about my fall.  My fall was intentional, and the story made absolute sense to me (from my perspective).

In the story I separated from my other half and walked into the void.  I fell into absolute darkness.  Into absolute nothingness.  I lit the way for others to follow.  From here (the universe we experience in the earth element level) the stars were created and planets were born.  We were meant to come here and learn.  This is the lowest of the levels, and an extreme testing ground of spirit.  

Did I give you a staff or (something dealing with) a gem for Az to hold?  Something you placed in his hand?  Like a totem.  Something to keep us bound together on a promise.  I see us standing near a balcony with Roman style columns, overlooking a valley with a clear moon lit night sky.  There's a cool breeze and thin violet curtains blow near where we stand.  Does that sound familiar to you?  That's a vision I'm getting.

My purpose was to light the way for you all to follow, and my purpose is to bring us back together.  I don't care about differences of opinion.  I care about loving and respecting all life, and treating it with the dignity and care it encompasses.  Sometimes I slip and get mad, but I'm human and I learn to move on.

No matter what the reason, we're here together now to help each other.  I honestly believe our ascension is drawing near.  It might not be for 100 years, but it's close, and it will be breath taking.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:26 am

Lili'el wrote:
Now that has me rethinking of couple of things, since I did choose to fall and supposedly (by supposedly I mean "I can't believe this until more information is dug up) a certain former Shadow had something to do with a plan. I remember choosing to do so...but the pain was soul-shattering, physically and emotionally. I still don't know why we choose to (because I have the feeling I might've Fallen around the same time Lucifer did), but looking back at it I pray it wasn't in vain.

Ugh... now this topic has me thinking way too much. My head hurts confused Question

Lili,

That's what the fall (and birth) did (and do) to us.  The fall shattered my mind as well.  I broke myself completely, and have been piecing myself back together.  I came here to build myself back up.  We all have, in a way.  This is a harsh existence we live in, but it's taught me love like I never knew was possible.  

And you certainly didn't do it in vain.  I can promise you that.  The fact that you worry about it proves you didn't do it in vain.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:29 am

Zionis wrote:
I do remember fighting along side Lu and the others, but I was one of the many that escaped the "prison" in heaven.

I never thought someone would think heaven is a prison, but then again there are a lot of beings I don't quite understand or know about.  Do you mind if I ask why you refer to heaven as a prison, Zi?  I find that fascinating.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:35 pm

Lucifer wrote:

In the story I separated from my other half and walked into the void.  I fell into absolute darkness.  Into absolute nothingness.  I lit the way for others to follow.  From here (the universe we experience in the earth element level) the stars were created and planets were born.  We were meant to come here and learn.  This is the lowest of the levels, and an extreme testing ground of spirit.

It's interesting to see your perspective of this. Are you saying that you believe you fell into the nothingness from which the stars and planets had been created from..... or that they were created after your Fall. And who did you light the way for?

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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:01 am

Having been on both sides of the playing field this has never been an easy subject. I will admit this is still a painful topic .. even for me. But it's obvious something all of us who where there during the fall - and were the cause of the war - for us to recall. Each of us played a vital role and for whatever reason either we "chose" or were "forced" to fall.

The memories of my demise are still a bit foggy, I do believe it's because of my connection to certain "Shadow" and the feelings of betrayal and in the end knowing what was truly "right" from wrong.

Although in my heart I know I chose to come to earth to make amends and to try and right the wrongs that had been done so long ago. I fell with my brothers and sisters because I wanted to....and there are stories written that I fell for other reasons...

I had written before that I was upset with Lucifer for "falling" and couldn't understand his way of thinking, but now I know and understand why he did.

My fall was painful, very painful, as was my awakening...but it was a choice I had made and would do it again, but as I have said before if there was a chance I could change things I would do so in heartbeat.

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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:44 am

Azaz'el wrote:
It's interesting to see your perspective of this.  Are you saying that you believe you fell into the nothingness from which the stars and planets had been created from..... or that they were created after your Fall.  And who did you light the way for?

Az

Az,

Yes, I'm saying my fall brought light where none existed.  From this point darkness and light physically met and were able to coexist.  I'm not saying I created this Universe.  I dare not claim that.  I'm saying I found meeting ground for darkness and light to learn from each other.  Then, the Universe as we experience on the Earth (vibrational) level was created.  

I lit the way for all consciousness that wished to learn from (and experience) the chaos of life.  Only a few conscious energies experience this realm.  Only the brave come here.  You can lose yourself here.  That's why it's imperative we all communicate.

The goal (from the beginning) was for us to learn from each other.  View it like a gradient scale, and the the different shades are different spiritual levels.  Darkness is level one, and you move through the shades.  I mean no favoritism or disrespect to shadows, or darkness, when I say Darkness is level one.  I love nighttime.  

Angels that chose to fall did so to experience free will.  That was rebellious behavior when you know our original intent, make no mistake.  It's not evil, it's rebellious; however evil did come from it.  That was always the intention.

Evil that has transpired (throughout the Universe) has been instrumental in awakening larger groups of consciousness.  Before space and time, only God and his Angels existed.  This Universe, was meant to cultivate spiritual energy and grow consciousness worthy of infinity.  

Now we are drawing close to a consciousness that will bring true peace, love, equality, and harmony.  Those are the real horsemen of the apocalypse.  There will be destruction, but there can be no life without death.  Death releases our consciousness from our prison, and truly frees us, if we are enlightened.  

I think both sides are becoming tired of the masquerade, and we all long to live as we choose.  That's what The Rapture will be, it will be Universal enlightenment.    We will see our roles played out, and there will finally be harmony once more.  Judgment and freedom lie within, and soon people will know truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:50 am

Lucifer wrote:
Before space and time, only God and his Angels existed.

If I give God a male gender please call me out on it, because it isn't intentional.  I'm trying to break myself of that indoctrinated way of thinking, but sometimes it happens by accident.  Thank you, in advance.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:23 pm

As has been said and recognised in previous posts, the language we have and use today has the weight of not only history but also misconception heavily upon it. So don't worry about what you say... you can guarantee that if someone doesn't agree or understand they will ask! Wink

I'm pretty sure that all members have at times struggled to write a post that expresses what they really mean based upon the limited language we have. But with time and thought..... although I have had a distinct lack of these on many occasions... we get to say what we mean.

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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:31 pm

Lucifer wrote:
Before space and time, only God and his Angels existed.
I disagree, angels imo/experience are no where near one of the first beings to exist, but the elven were the first after them. Angels came much much later. after true seraphim (true seraphims arent angels)
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:40 pm

I'm wondering if this is maybe another example of language not expressing what we mean? You say Seraphim aren't angels.... do you mean they aren't Shadow?

I ask because the name 'angel' is just one of the levels of Shadow hierarchy and so in that sense what you say is true. And Seraphim is another level of Shadow. As is known, there were 10 levels of Shadow and mostly each Shadow remained within that level of existence/expression, with only a few being either able to switch levels of existence (such as the 'wildcards') or those who were forced by a Fall.

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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:11 am

I don't know if any of you are familiar with Sylvia Browne (if you aren't I'll give you a little info), but she was a medium with psychic powers.  She was on numerous American television shows, and was profiled by the national media.  She's written numerous books, and I highly recommend reading them for a better understanding of 'the other side.'  

For the sake of conversation, I'm going to give you the name and rank of Angels, their purpose, and function.  I'm not saying you have to believe this.  This information was from Sylvia, and I thought it would be interesting to share.  

I want to put it up as a visual, and possibly open up more dialog.  I find what she has to say quite interesting.  My understanding (at this point) is the 'lower ranks' have more contact with life in this dimension, and the 'higher ranks' generally stay on 'the other side' and oversee.  Thrones and Principalities are the same rank since they serve Mother and Father God (their purposes and functions are different).

Type - Purpose - Function


Angels - Protectors - Fears and phobias

Archangels - Messengers - Hope

Cherubim - Joyous Singers - Insomnia

Seraphim - Joyous Singers - Remembering dreams

Powers - Healers - Peace

Carrions - Carriers of dark entities - Fate

Virtues - Helpers (charters) - Morals

Dominions - Overseers of good; recorders of deeds - Strength

Thrones - Azna's (Mother God's) army - Fertility (emotion)

Principalities - Om' (Father God's) army - Justice (intellect)


I want to remind everybody, I'm not saying this is true.  I found this information interesting, because it is a significantly different view, when compared to religious teachings.  It's very befitting of our situation in this dimension.  She led me to new questions, and answers.  My goal is knowledge and enlightenment.  Feel free to take this information however you like.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:30 am

Zionis wrote:
I disagree, angels imo/experience are no where near one of the first beings to exist, but the elven were the first after them. Angels came much much later. after true seraphim (true seraphims arent angels)

Zi,

I don't think we're quite on the same level of understanding yet, so I want to clarify terms between us for better communication.  What realm/dimension are you speaking of when you refer to elven and seraphim?  From what I can tell (regarding you and Az), there are numerous groups that claim these names.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:59 am

Lucifer wrote:
Zionis wrote:
I disagree, angels imo/experience are no where near one of the first beings to exist, but the elven were the first after them. Angels came much much later. after true seraphim (true seraphims arent angels)

Zi,

I don't think we're quite on the same level of understanding yet, so I want to clarify terms between us for better communication.  What realm/dimension are you speaking of when you refer to elven and seraphim?  From what I can tell (regarding you and Az), there are numerous groups that claim these names.

I am speaking of our home in heaven...or well previous home, our brothers and sisters. Heaven had seraphims then they had true seraphims. True seraphims being not quite aligned with heaven. Azrael for example I dont see him part of heaven but as literal horseman (though this is all my current experiences/searching so many might disagree) No I know I have no been misguided or lied to.
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PostSubject: Re: Misconceptions of the Fallen.   Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:15 pm

I'm not aware of Sylvia Browne and whilst I find her conclusions interesting, they differ from my own personal experience and knowledge. As for there being Seraphim and true Seraphim, I have no knowledge at all of this. I was Seraphim and at that time there was only one group of Seraphim.... but I can't remember what happened with them after my first Fall.

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