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Ari'el
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PostSubject: Questions about the Shadow   Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:00 pm

I've been reading through Az's account of the fall on the website, and that, among other things have sparked some questions for me. I'm posting them here for anyone else who is also curious and/or has some answers.

What is the definition of Shadow?

Is there any difference between Shadow and Angels?

Az (and perhaps others) have spoken of other races or factions wanting to help out the Grigori. What were/are these?

Are there other races that could be considered Angels by the layperson?

Who or what are The Seven, and what is their role?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:40 pm

Well, thought I'd jump in here and give my opinios........ but please bear in mind that there could be as many versions of answers as there are members answering them. It's all down to perspective and to names and beliefs. So, here are my views.....

What is the definition of Shadow?

There is no real definition, only the basics of what we are. We are believed to be the first Race to have been created or evolved. The onldest of all races, the guardians of the Universe and all creation. Our task was the protect the Uiniverse and to offer guidance to all races that followed. But we could always be unpredictable, following the instructions of the Source and doing whatever was required of us to protect and uphold the wishes of the Creator. So we could be as warm as the summer sun, or as painful and destructive as the coldest winter. We could heal one being and kill the next, honour one tribe or city and destroy others, depending on the instructions we were given.

The Shadow were neutral, the police force of the Universe in some eyes, always watchful, always protecting, always following the wishes of the Source.

Is there any difference between Shadow and Angels?

Yes and no. It really depends on your beliefs and spiritual position. The general concept of angels in todays world is based upon the ideas offered from christianity. Yet this is a generally modern and very wrong interpretations of what an angel was originally. Christianity adopted the legends, myths, tales regarding the Shadow, and used them in its interpretation of the Universe. But over centuries angels became friendly, chubby, whimsical, whose only task in life was to watch over and protect humanity. Well, if the earlier tales are looked at more closely in christianity, you'll see that angels in there generally had one wing dipped in blood.... wheneever god wanted someone killed, he sent an angel!! So, the Shadow are angels.... but not in the modern sense of the word. That's why from say one of the website and forum I chose to use the older word, in English, that is Shadow, rather than angel. I wanted everyone to see us for who we really are, as emotional, fallable and fickle as every other race, and not get caught up on the lable of Angel that most people think of today.

Az (and perhaps others) have spoken of other races or factions wanting to help out the Grigori. What were/are these?

There are many different races and factions that were linked to the Grigori and wanted to help. As you know from some posts already made, there was the Sidhe. There was also Dragonkin, various races of Elementals, and others. But mainly there were 4 major races....... and we know of two; Shadow and Sidhe. Would anyone else like to jump in here with the other two?

Are there other races that could be considered Angels by the layperson?

Generally I'd say no. Some people do tend to think of spiritual guides as angelic, and these could include walk-ins I suppose. But thinking of the older tales and legends,I think most people would just consider angels to be angels.

Who or what are The Seven, and what is their role?

Ah, interesting question this one!! I'll try to keep this very brief!!! The Seven were the Seven Shadow who were the first seven beings created. These seven were given the task of deciding the fates and roles of the Shadow Race, and then guiding it and ruling it and standing as the Voice of the Source. The Seven interpreted the information gleaned from the Source and passed this on to all other ranks within Shadow society so that order could be gained in the chaos of the universe. However, problems arose when some of the Seven disagreed with other members interpretations and in some eyes became greedy for power. So after a ..... er.... series of events, some of the Seven were deposed, and others ascended and elevated to take their place.

I hope this simple and very short set of answers helps you to understand a little more.... and will no doubt bring about a whole series of other questions!!!

Az



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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:31 am

Thank you, Az, I appreciate all the answers! And you're right, I have more questions now.

Your "definition" of the Shadow intrigues me. It feels right.. I guess. Or maybe it touched on something in me... not sure.

What do the Shadow look like? I know that on Earth, at least, you looked humanoid and often had wings. But could the Shadow take on any other forms? Did they look different before they really started interacting with humans?

I'd like to know more about the Seven, they intrigue me for whatever reason.

What happened to the members of the Seven that were deposed? Were the greedy ones kicked out? Or did the corrupt ones band together and kick the other ones out?

Did a member of the Seven ever stop being a member for reasons other than being kicked out?

What you said about the Seven makes it sound like only they could really communicate with the Source (this idea kind of bothers me). Is this correct? Or are they just the ones that happen to "govern" or "lead" the rest of the Shadow? And can the rest of the Shadow converse with, or hear/feel the Source as well?

Are The Seven known by any other name, as far as you know?

Were the Seven and the Shadow as a whole always so political, and sometimes even corrupt? Or was that something that happened over time?

The other two major Races feel important to me... I hope someone has an idea about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:00 am

So... I have a question (or several). Are Shadow the same as Elohim and/or Mal'akh? I was told that Mal'akh (or Malakhim) is more akin to a title. It means "prince". What word are you translating as Shadow, Az? I know we've covered this somewhere before... but it's still unclear to me.

As for the description of Shadow, you all must know by now how much I agree with that! It's spot on in my experience/opinion. Forget the New Age stuff. That may be some people's experience with them, but certainly not mine.

I know from my research that all religions have their versions of "angels", not just Christianity... although this is the most well-known version. And considering how very few references there are in the canon bible to them it is really surprising that this is what most people think of first. Personally the whole cherub view of angels annoys me to no end. That was created to make people who lost children due to the high child/infant mortality rates feel better about the loss, in my opinion. Didn't that start in the Renaissance period... coming out of the Dark Age?

Hmm... Shadow, Sidhe, and 2 others? They have to be from other worlds I'd think. I've read about Grays - the so called aliens in the UFO's from the 50's. Does that ring a bell? My other guess would be Atlantans. Just spitballing here, but as usual you have my curiosity piqued Az! I know there are many other-worlders out there, so it's surprising that you narrow it down to 4.

So, are there different "Councils" besides the Seven? I'm really curious about the hierarchy of the "politics" myself. What rank would the Council of Seven be...? Seraphim, I suppose? We hear most about Archangels and Angels... the others and their rolls/jobs/duties just get glossed over. Does anyone know what they other ranks are responsible for? And do the Shadow often change ranks/jobs? How many Shadow are there altogether do you think? Ballpark figure. Any guesses? I'm guessing not as many as the general population is led to believe... although I am under the assumption that each person is assigned a guardian angel as well as at least one Guide. Guides are those spirits who have been incarnate before, often our family or those with close ties to us. They are not the same as our guardian angels... or is this another New Age assumption? I'm reading a book about Guardian Angels and Spirit Guides. Trying to glean some information, but it's tough to know what to believe considering my experiences have been so different. Are there more Shadow being created as need dictates? I'm interested in hearing other people's views.

Myth


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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:43 am

I have some thoughts but I'm curious about what others will say, who probably know more than me =) being that I'm not Shadow.

Quote :
The other two major Races feel important to me... I hope someone has an idea about that.

Well, I agree with Az, that the Shadow and Sidhe are two of the "major races." In my view, the other two are Therians and Humans.

I had a vision a few weeks ago that said as much. I saw a Shadow, a Sidhe, a Therian and a Human and they were all working some kind of magick. Humans perhaps more in their capacity as Shamans, Sorcerers, Mages, Wizards, Witches, Ascended, and so on.

After that vision I started thinking about Therians a lot. And I got the impression that a major sect of them are kind of .... "Earth-made," like, half-human, half earth, and that gets expressed as an animalistic side, and shift. Kind of like American Indian Totems... I felt that in this capacity some of them are Earth guardians, or once were.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:53 am

To ask a loaded, possibly repeat question, does anyone know the names of the original seven, and who the cast-outs were replaced with?

Shadow, Sidhe, Human and Therian sounds about right to me. As far as I know after looking at a past life there, Atlantis was a city, Myth, and its population were not a race unto themselves. Likewise, I've heard about the Grays, but think we're talking about conscious Earth races here.

Do I remember, correctly, reading that the grand total of Shadow is supposed to number 200? That confuses me now, because I was under the impression there are more angels than that, and Shadow were a specific type. But then, I'm also in confusion over the question of potential; part of me thinks everyone could have wings, but part of me stubbornly clings to the idea I'm no different than anyone else. The point about 4 different races kind of shoots that down, of course.

This whole topic is making me extremely wistful.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:54 pm

Quote :
Well, I agree with Az, that the Shadow and Sidhe are two of the "major races." In my view, the other two are Therians and Humans.

LOL... I read that and had a "DUH" moment. Of course humans! But who are Therians? That's a new one on me.

Quote :
Do I remember, correctly, reading that the grand total of Shadow is supposed to number 200?

My understanding is that there were 200 Grigori who fell (201 including Daniel), but there were/are many more Elohim/Mal'akh/Shadow in existence than the 200 - unless Shadow simply refers to the 200 Watchers, which I don't think it does from what Az has said in other threads. I was wondering about the current population of Shadow/Elohim (ballpark figure) and if it's growing or declining. Does anyone know if the Grigori rank still exists?

Quote :
But then, I'm also in confusion over the question of potential; part of me thinks everyone could have wings, but part of me stubbornly clings to the idea I'm no different than anyone else.

I'm no authority here... but I can offer you my understanding and perspective. Elohim have wings. Nephilim get wings when they reach adulthood, which I have been told was around year one. Later this may have changed as Nephilim may have continued to be born but to make them "blend in" with humans they may have looked fully human and matured at the same rate as humans - thus not getting visible wings under after crossing over into the other realm. Ascended humans also have wings. Think Metatron and Sandelphon... they are similar to Elohim but not exactly the same. As an ascended human I've also got wings. I've felt the phantom wings myself and am told Catriona (the other half of my soul) has dove gray wings and chestnut hair (mine is dark blond... so that's a change). I'm going by the name Anael over there, as I've taken over Hari's duties. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:26 am

Well, lemme try to do a definition of Therians... "Therian" is short for "Therianthrope," and they also go as "Weres" sometimes. They're 'kin with non-human, animal souls or spiritual selves, such as felines, canines, avians, sea creatures, and so on. They often experience the "phantom limb" sensation according to their kintype, as well as urges matching their kintype.

The one I saw in the vision looked like a half-shifted (between human and animal form) wolf therian.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:26 am

Wow that must have looked cool!

I think that classification may explain all the myths about spinxes, merepeople, selkies, deer women, and such. I always heard about them being closely related to faerie, but much more human.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:31 pm

I'm hoping that another of the Shadow members of the site will also jump in hrer and start trying to give some answers as I don't want to be seen as an authority on Shadow.... my memory is riddles with holes.

As for what the Shadow look like, well, if depended on their rank. Usually only the lowest ranks had the ability to appear physically and resemble a humanoid. The higher ranks could become physical in the manifest universe, but trying to contain their energy in such as simple form as humanoid was almost impossible... so they would look quite odd.... hence the descriptions of them having multiple faces or wings etc etc. BUt generally they would only manifest as energy or light etc etc.

From what I roughly remember, those that worked with the physical races would tend to appear as physical representatives of those races... so those who worked with humanity would appear humanoid.

The term mal'akh or mal'akhim didn't originally mean 'prince' when used in reference to the Shadow. I'm not sure where that definition comes from, but it used to mean Shadow, as in the shadow side of god. That's where the word Shadow, in English, comes from.

There were many different levels of power sharing in Shadow community.... the Seven weren't the only ones who could communicate with the Source... each Shadow was able to communicate directly with the Source. But the Seven were the ones who were responsible for directing and giverning Shadow society, evolution and development, and overseeing the general work we did in the Universe. No member of the Seven would ever dream of leaving that position, so the only reason they did was due to politics, power and being overthrown by their peers. So those who were deposed ultimately became Fallen. There are two names that most of you will be aware of that were originally members of the Seven, one of them being the Morning Star.

On a last note, there were 200 Grigori who were killed and became Fallen, and one Archangel at that major Fall. But there were many other Grigori in existence. As for the total number of Shadow.... I probably once knew the answer to that, but not any more.

I probably should let others jump in and answer some of your questions here now!!!

Az





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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:07 am

Ellysium Wrote:
Quote :
Could the Shadow take on any other forms?

This is an interesting question, and reading back on this thread it's one I'd like to see others' opinions on. I was led to believe that Hari could take the form of a Unicorn/Pegasus/Allicorn. I was also told that certain others have a dragon form. They are not dragons or unicorns per se... but they may have some of those characteristics or personality traits which help them to relate to that particular species. This may be related to or tie into which "line" they came from, which seems to be related to coloring (black hair vs. blond hair vs. chestnut hair vs. red hair) and possibly temperament. Hari had/has blond hair and light colored wings, and his personality is less formal than some... typically more laid back. Those with black hair (ahem... sorry Az) are more formal and reserved. I'm not sure how this ties into jobs, but Hari is very talented in the arts (music, fine art, poetry, etc.) and his children (those that I know about... which are a fair few) also have talents in these areas, and this seems to be more of a "unicorn" type of thing as compared to the dragons, who are very warrior-like and possibly bigger in stature.

My understanding is that each Shadow/Elohim has a "magical" animal form, but can basically can take any other form they wish (male, female, animal, etc.). I was surprised to learn Catriona is typically manifesting herself as male over there since she's taken over many of (if not all) Haniel/Hanael's duties while he's gone.

FYI, in case you're wondering... Hari supposedly incarnated as a walk-in two days ago... I'm told with full memories of who he is, which frankly is not sitting well with me at all. This is possibly a test to see if the curse has truly been broken, but considering that his self-destructiveness tends to lead to my death... whose bright idea was that? There is also the good possibility that it's someone I already know (I got a name... a co-worker and someone I may have had a past life connection to, which means that this person may "owe" Hari one and now he's collected... so when I get home I suppose I'll find out one way or another). *Sigh* Nothing, absolutely nothing at this point will surprise or shock me. And yes... I'm totally aware of how crazy I sound. If it wasn't happening to me I'd think I should be locked away somewhere just for posting this stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:03 am

"Who are the Shadow? Who are the Seven?"

My take on this is slightly different - an outsider's view in ways. I've been wondering the answer to these questions myself, and since they were asked, I finally had the insight to look and see what I could see.

My initial impression, Az, and the other Shadow in the forum, is that there is much conspiracy in Shadow society and much that is hidden from you. I don't think the Seven Shadow that you speak of were really any different than the rest of you, but that it was basically a lie... to create order or to make you serve. I think that originally the Shadow were much different from their forms around the time that their society changed and became more intrisically hierarchical. I think that there has been a lot of manipulation in Shadow society from way, way back, to make other Shadow believe that they were inferior when they really weren't.

My impression of how the Shadow work is that it's kind of like a rung of frequencies.... the closer a frequency is to the Cauldron, the "higher in rank," and the further away, the "lower."

What I saw was a great Cauldron made of stars, burning bright and at the center of much, out of which the Shadow were formed and emerged fully made, simultaneously with about 10 or 12 other "old creator/maintainer/etc." races. The Shadow, I think, weren't created directly from the Source of life and consciousness and energy. There was also duality. There is a dual race to the Shadow - as the Shadow rule light and order, Demons were created to rule dark and chaos. Many beings that we presently call "Gods and Goddesses," like those of the Hindu pantheon (Shiva, Ganesh, Kali, etc.) today also emerged at this Cauldron origin point. What came later were earth elementals, and mortals that inhabited worlds. The worlds had to be created before they could be inhabited, and all these different beings created out of the Cauldron worked together towards that end. Light and Dark and Order and Chaos and Life and Death all came together in harmony, like the Yin/Yang. Shadow created order, for example. Sidhe infused/created "spark"... but there were many others... as well. Dragons, I'm not sure about... they may be older than either of those two creations.

I saw that there was a greater being from which the Shadow and Sidhe came, great and benevolent and wise and shining and huuuggeeee. That there was a "creator group" of Seven that transcended what races like the Shadow or Sidhe represented in their roles of creating life and order.... each corresponding to a color, tone, frequency, etc. In New Age, in the typical "angel" encounter, with something benevolent made of light, it's connected to these creators. I wouldn't call it an angel.... maybe "guardian" would be more apt. Basically like a piece of the love of the creator snapped off and put into miniature form.

There was this world, but there are many worlds that the Shadow are connected to, still, each traveling between all the worlds through the gateways. And there are many more races out there, that the Shadow interact with both on non-mortal and mortal levels, than can be told. As far as their interactions today and their populations... many of them seem to have fled to other worlds because of some event that took place here. Others carry enmity in their hearts from past events and wish to continue battles today that have ended, really. The rest are those that were bound here, mostly through reincarnation.

This is what my feeling is. Thought I'd chip that in.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:45 pm

Wow. Thanks for all of the answers and insights, guys! It's giving me a lot to think about.

Dream's, some of what you said in your latest post really struck me, like you might be getting to something.

And Az, some of what you said really corresponds to some of my memories. Namely what you said about the base form of Shadow being energy and light. And that Shadow took on a form that looked like whatever creature they were dealing with. I don't think these qualities are unique to the Shadow though...

Yesterday I was reviewing a memory of my beginnings in hopes of gaining clarity or remembering more. I was not created, so to speak. For some reason I have never liked that idea, and instead felt that I created myself. I was a part of/one with/the same as the Source/Universe... or maybe just one of these big things that you mentioned, Dream's - I don't know yet. In any case, I wanted to experience things as the beings in the Universe experienced them (there may be other reasons too, but I don't remember), so I came into being.... I just kind of bubbled out and seperated. "Snapped off", the way Dream describes those New Agey angel things snapping off and forming a miniature, is actually pretty close to my memory - which is part of the reason why it struck me. And then, I was just this mass of energy and light (like Az's description) hovering around in space. I was very intensely aware of a society of beings living on a planet at the time. I don't remember anything specific about them, except that they were fairly far along in their development. I then wondered about Earth, and my memory-view swung over to it. Earth, at that time, was still in her beginning stages, just rock and hot lava.

While re-viewing this memory I also tried to see if there were any others like me, or if I fit into a race or society, like the Shadow, for example. But I got nothing. Maybe I just wasn't asking the right question.

I also have vague memories of visiting creatures on their worlds or planets, and taking on a form that looked like them so that it was easier for them to understand me, and so that I could better interact with and possibly help, guide, or even just simply communicate with and pass messages to them.

Basically I still have no idea what I am, maybe there isn't a fitting label for it... But in any case, I keep thinking that I might be (blank), but I'm getting new information, or clarifications on old memories every week, sometimes even every day, and things keep changing.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:26 pm

Azaz'el wrote:
There are two names that most of you will be aware of that were originally members of the Seven, one of them being the Morning Star.

I knew you were going to say that, which was why I asked. I can kind of see other names and forms, but don't know how to go about writing them, even phonetically. It's like trying to literally transcribe a boom of thunder or crashing wave. The forms look more like manifestations of shadows on light than physical beings, as well. I'd like to see more, but it actually makes me feel kind of queasy to look much. There's a terrible sorrow there, and I can't tell if it's purely personal or farther reaching.

Dream's, I think you're right about the conspiracy, manipulation, and politics at play within Shadow society. The very idea of "society" in regards to Shadow is abhorrent to me, but I think that is the best word to use. It felt intensely egotistical to think I had once been among the seven, but that was my immediate thought, and as you said, they were really no different from the rest. Unless you count their inflatable heads. >Wink

That was a really interesting read Ellysium. It made me curious to look into my own origins, but all I could see was an outward explosion of stars.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:30 pm

Dream'sEnd wrote:
I don't think the Seven Shadow that you speak of were really any different than the rest of you, but that it was basically a lie... to create order or to make you serve. I think that originally the Shadow were much different from their forms around the time that their society changed and became more intrisically hierarchical.

The Seven weren't and will never be any different to any of the other members of Shadow society, other than they were Seraphim and so part of the topmost branch of origin. Originally there was no lie offered to any Shadow regarding the Seven......... the Seven were their to act as decision makers, those who were the first to step out of creation or the cauldron, and who were there to help and to guide the ruling and organisation of all Shadow. Originally no Shadow served the Seven, it wasn't even a position that any would have considered trying to take over.......... not until some of the Seven were deposed and others vied for positions of power.

As with all Races, the Shadow have grown, have changed, have developed and become more than their original concept or purpose, some of that change being for the good, some not. But evolution is what this game is all about and I hope they have grown to see that in the many millennia I have been away from my own kind or my home.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:30 am

Quote :
the Shadow have grown, have changed, have developed and become more than their original concept or purpose, some of that change being for the good, some not. But evolution is what this game is all about and I hope they have grown to see that in the many millennia I have been away from my own kind or my home.

Yes.... Part of what you all are doing is guiding them there. Because you understand evolution. People (to use the term loosely) that resist change don't understand why it's important, how something can grow and change and become more. But you all learned that way back when, and so you can guide them today. And I think they're ready.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:45 pm

I certainly hope so. As I see it, changes are coming whether we're ready or not, and while it may seem to those resistant as a fight to keep things the same, those forces of nature sweeping in are all the more reason to be ready and flexible, with a solid core.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:59 am

I agree wholeheartedly that evolution of the soul is exactly the point of life in general. Personally, I'm struggling to see how how my experiences fit in with the grand scheme of things, how what I "know" and remember measures up to the whole, and how one thing relates to another. Like all of us, my story is but a tiny puzzle piece in a huge universal picture... and it's more than confusing, it's impossible to comprehend and come to any definite conclusions. But one thing that keeps coming back is learning about ourselves through experience... resulting in the evolution of the soul. I'm curious to hear if others think this is bunk or not. Do you think this viewpoint has any validity as the "bottom line" so to speak?

As for change, it's inevitable, isn't it? It is always happening all the time, and there are always those who choose to fight it... always those who are not ready for it and try to stop it. I personally feel that there is less resistance to change on the other side than some here might think. Many of the old views have shifted, in my opinion. There will always be those who oppose, but I feel that these voices are growing weaker and weaker. Change has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen... because (believe it or not) we have all learned a thing or two over the course of Time.

On a semi-related note (concerning the evolution of the soul), I picked up a book while on vacation called "Conversations with God - an uncommon dialogue" by Neal Donald Walsh. It's a really interesting read, if you haven't seen it - what I would call a channelled book, but one unlike anything I've ever encountered before. Given what's happened to me recently I can't dismiss it, because much of it makes total sense to me as a philosophy and speaks of these very issues. I'm finding it fascinating. It would be a really good book for the book club. Very Happy

Myth
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about the Shadow   Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:16 am

Scratch wrote:

Dream's, I think you're right about the conspiracy, manipulation, and politics at play within Shadow society. The very idea of "society" in regards to Shadow is abhorrent to me, but I think that is the best word to use. It felt intensely egotistical to think I had once been among the seven, but that was my immediate thought, and as you said, they were really no different from the rest. Unless you count their inflatable heads. >Wink

That was a really interesting read Ellysium. It made me curious to look into my own origins, but all I could see was an outward explosion of stars.

Scratch, I feel almost exactly the same about the idea of Shadow society and politics, etc. It just makes me go "ugh!" and want nothing to do with it. Deeper down and less clear there also seems to be a bit of anger, and maybe some regret or resentment.

Wow! Awesome image, Scratch! - an outward explosion of stars. Very cool!

Myth, I definitely think that learning about oneself through experience, experiences in general, and life (and probably other things as well) can lead to the evolution and development of the soul.
Also, I've read bits and pieces of the "Conversations with God" books, they're pretty interesting.
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