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 Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?

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Kur

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed May 09, 2012 1:59 am

I talked to an angel once about Lucifer. They said his role is to be the opposing force that keeps the universe in motion, the friction that turns the Great Wheel. It has nothing to do with good and evil, and he is certainly not the enemy of the Source. If anything, he is its greatest servant. This was his task, and he was brave for accepting it. Still, I do not envy him for it. In opposing creation, he opposes himself. This knowledge pains him, but someone has to do it. Its a shame that he has been so maligned by those who do not recognize his great sacrifice.

It is my own speculation that the Fall that many of you have experienced is similar in nature. You may not understand the reasoning for your exile, but your trials are a part of something greater.
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Ashtart

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Thu May 10, 2012 11:43 am

That was my feeling about Lucifer too, until I remembered who he was. She's here on this thread somewhere. In general, I do feel that that is true about all "opposers," however, so that is probably ultimately a great rule of the universe...

Some people and forces are meant to oppose. They can't "just be good." That is not their heart's stirrings. That is not the will of their Creation. They are meant to keep the balance, and to turn the great wheel. They are holy and valued, too. Their lives, whether they lose or triumph in their "opposing" are of great worth to the whole.

We can't fight who we are, and we shouldn't. When I believed that that was what the Lucifer was, it filled me with great respect and admiration for him - for taking the sacrifice that we all may thrive. Even though I think that there were other reasons for the welling of pride and admiration that I felt for him now, mainly being that we were very close in other lives, among all the Shadow, I still admire those who accept the holy task of sacrifice... If that is ultimately my own fate, which may be written Smile I can't tell yet, can't see it solid... then I would gladly and proudly accept... It is an honor to live your true purpose, for that is the will of... whoever/whatever is running this joint Smile I would say the Universe
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Scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Sun May 13, 2012 5:07 am

I find it hard to believe that anyone can "just be good." Or "just be bad." Even the choice of words implies that something is lacking. I don't see anything I've done as being especially one or the other. I used to, but turned out to be a piss-poor judge. Maybe that's a call for other people to make, instead of the self.

Likewise, I can't believe that any one being is responsible for keeping the universe in motion. We all do that, whether our actions are loving, hating, not by our choice, nonexistent, or just plain silly. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest difference between me and any other, at least in this context, can be measured in how hard they were bitten by Fame. And, as I think we all know, fame is no judge of character.
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Veil

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed May 30, 2012 5:07 pm

Scratch wrote:
That's interesting you bring up Elohim, Val, since I think that name may have something to do with what happened with Asherah. I would have in my previous post, but something held me back. Kind of showed that we're on the same page, in the process...

Anyway, I'm not sure of usage the either, although I do think you're right about the -im and -el endings. I have heard Elohim used as one of God's names, or perhaps some kind of personification, but don't think that's right. I think it more likely describes a group of angels, which jives with the ending. In that case, the term would apply similarly to a surname.


Whew, you got it. Yes, I've been waiting. For months. It was starting to get brain-painful. lol

The Elohim were a cluster of angels and djinn, seven from what I understand, but they were also judges. My given name descends from this tradition, which is pre-Christian and more Hebrew in origin, but I wasn't part of this council of judges. I'm just a messenger and information gatherer. I guess became I've always been low on the totem pole, I was able to keep my basic position, and intermingle with the best that Heaven, Hel (which is a cave, btw), and Earth had to offer.

Once the Torah was written, Elohim began being attributed to the God only. When the King James version of the Bible came out, it was also used pluralistically for the angel beings, God, and several gods. So it all got mixed up, and some of you that have been trying to remember, are beginning to unravel it all.

Back to the cave, from what I understand, Hel is just that. It's a place of dark, but it's because you get removed from The Light Bringer. Yes, Scratch, but there is more to it...or you, I should say. Lucifer has to bring the light, but that means Lucifer had to hang around in darkness sometimes too. So the Yin and Yang, Dark and Light so many are confused about, has to do with the exchange of positions physically. There's another half of you, basically. Unfortunately, for some reason, both halves have been more in the dark (physically or due to being human), so things have really been falling apart. In Norse mythology, Hel has her hounds, and this is related to the djinn being found in that form so often. Vedic and Norse texts are closely linked, one of the few archaeological details that was never lost to time, and this is just one of the connections. Djinn, we get around. lol
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Azaz'el
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed May 30, 2012 11:11 pm

I guess it depends on where you stand and what memories or inclusion may have taken place back in the First Times. The Elohim were a branch of Shadow but there were more than just Seven of them, at least from my perspective Smile

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Veil

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Thu May 31, 2012 2:53 pm

Well, and it's possible that the number plummeted when so much else did. If it helps, I can use Elohei to mean the judges?
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Scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:56 am

Do you mean like there's another embodiment Lucifer running around, or two halves to one (my) being? Either way, all this importance, influence, responsibility, whatever it's called, is really irritating. I don't see why so much should rest on so little.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:03 am

Interesting post Veil. I have a question though, as someone who's researched feverishly but not necessarily thoroughly or exhaustively Smile Vedic is Hindu/Indian, is it not? I have seen that there are correlations between Indian and West/North European culture (which is so, so interesting). What I don't get, though is the connection with djinn. If you will pardon my ignorance, I thought djinn are written about mostly in Middle Eastern texts? I don't know which ones precisely, but I do know (having an Arabic or Persian - depending on who you ask - name that is derived from a book of Middle eastern folklore) that djinn are mentioned extensively in Middle Eastern and Persian myths.

Not that anything that you know must correlate with known texts - heck, those things are mostly wrong all the time. But if there's something that I missed I'd love to be enlightened (no, really *geek*)
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Veil

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:18 pm

Scratch wrote:
Do you mean like there's another embodiment Lucifer running around, or two halves to one (my) being? Either way, all this importance, influence, responsibility, whatever it's called, is really irritating. I don't see why so much should rest on so little.

My understanding is another embodiment. I'm not sure what you mean by "so little". Consider this, since you are Earthbound as a human now, the other incarnation isn't. This means they can go between dimensions, doing what Lucifer (you two) do, and generally cut-up at will. From what I've been told, normally this means the Earthbound side is considered in the dark, while the other is in the light. I think, somehow, the other side of you decided to hang out in the dark longer than planned. Not that it is so surprising though, I guess, since the last experience of being with Light wasn't exactly pleasant.
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Veil

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:48 pm

Ashtart wrote:
If you will pardon my ignorance, I thought djinn are written about mostly in Middle Eastern texts? I don't know which ones precisely, but I do know (having an Arabic or Persian - depending on who you ask - name that is derived from a book of Middle eastern folklore) that djinn are mentioned extensively in Middle Eastern and Persian myths.

Not that anything that you know must correlate with known texts - heck, those things are mostly wrong all the time. But if there's something that I missed I'd love to be enlightened (no, really *geek*)

Sorry for the double post, but answering different individuals...

Yes, the majority of texts on djinn were written in the Middle East and Persia, the literature surviving oftentimes because of the tie-in to Islam. That's not where the literature originated, however, and my own clan is pre-Islamic in nature, coming from source closer to Canaanite. To the Canaanites, Lilith and Lucifer mated, and she was the face of the divine. She had children, and voila, djinn. This was later interpreted as demon spawning, but it didn't start out that way. In another part of this board we discussed YWHW being El, who is a Canaanite god, and oftentimes thought of as a djinn.

As for the connection to Norse myth, I am honestly still piecing this one together. Most of what I have comes from my studying Norse myths, but also from Thelemic and Theosophy, as well as communication with members of my clan network. Right now, I think the simplest explanation is that some djinn went outward when things got too rocky in our place of origin, and we were given different names by different cultures, once we landed. We also crop up in Africa, parts of China, and South America, same skills and goals, and they sometimes still use the same words. But, not always, and two people in the same town will refer to the same being with different names. I've noticed a common trend that certain types of djinn went to certain areas, i.e. the thunder, rain, storm, ocean, and wind djinns headed North, probably because the physical environment was more conducive to their perpetuating the species. Also, it was easy to blend in with the fae and other beings like us, oftentimes to the point the djinn title was subsumed by the other group.
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Ashtart

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:33 am

Quote :
Yes, the majority of texts on djinn were written in the Middle East and Persia, the literature surviving oftentimes because of the tie-in to Islam. That's not where the literature originated, however, and my own clan is pre-Islamic in nature, coming from source closer to Canaanite. To the Canaanites, Lilith and Lucifer mated, and she was the face of the divine. She had children, and voila, djinn. This was later interpreted as demon spawning, but it didn't start out that way. In another part of this board we discussed YWHW being El, who is a Canaanite god, and oftentimes thought of as a djinn.

Oh ho! As, always, good research Smile Thank you for sharing your insights with us.

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:15 am

*necros the thread* There's something both Lucifer that gives me the feeling of a Promethean figure. I agree that he saw humans as equals, and loved them as much as his brethren. Is that why he wanted to enlighten them? I think Lucifer saw farther into the future than most.

It's not much compared what everyone else here said and I'm still a baby here, but the one who stole the Fire from the gods, shared with humans, the one who revealed the hidden, the lantern in the darkness of the cave which leads to Awakening... that's how I saw Lucifer.
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Lucifer

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:33 am

I never saw this conversation before.  It's nice to know people had my back while I was searching for myself.  Smile  Now that I'm here, if you have questions fire away.  I'll answer as best I can.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:12 pm

I'm glad that the thread lifts your spirits Wink I should probably bring up that we've had at least one other Lucifer here in the forum. While I was making these posts I was thinking of her, because we shared many memories together. In fact, she was very instrumental to my complete awakening. Who knows what she'd think of another Lucifer being here, but I don't think that it would bother her much, so it doesn't bother me much Smile I accept you.

But as you poke around you will likely see other threads along the same lines. It would be interesting to see if the two of you actually share any memories.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:47 pm

Who knows, we might.  Anything is possible.  I know Luciferians believe strongly in the cause, and I can't deny if somebody else claims the same thing as me.  I live my life by letting my actions speak louder than my words, and to leading by example.  

I can't prove who I am just claiming it; however there are quite a few interesting "coincidences" relating to me that have led me to my ultimate conclusion.  In the end it's what I do that will determine whether or not I am who I say.  So much is unknown.  I'm excited to learn more.  Hopefully, we can help each other like she did with you Ash.  Smile
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