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 The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia

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Ousa

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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 2:50 am

You are judging ego's on this planet not spirit which encases the essence of us all! Try to differentiate between the two more closely because in essence you are ultimately judging yourselves!

You may perceive yourself spiritually as other than human and in your minds eye the causes may be justifiable to a point of no return but you lack that essence of true discernment for the overall picture.

Nobody said we had to like it but whether or not we like it or not we for better or worse are all here in embodiment for purposes beyond your recognition for this moment in time! I have fought too many people and too many wars over numerous lifetimes and I have ultimately chosen not to argue over who is on top or what's on the bottom!

Chaoskampf (Chaos's struggle) funny how you should use a German word to describe your suffering that Hitler so ultimately tried and failed in order to establish his own kingdom here on earth. I am saddened by your words here and I pray you change for the betterment of all spiritual beings in your final choice of that path which you are ultimately to follow!

Ouza Like a Star @ heaven

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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 7:35 am

It has been argued that even murderers would - in a better society - be shown more compassion than retribution.

Not to say that I'm there myself Smile But that is the society that I grew up in - a vengeful one.

We see each other as separate, and so we say to the murderer "*You* are bad. If we confine you everyone else will be safe."

But what if we saw each other as one, as a whole, as we used to? What if we understood that the faults of one are the responsibility of all .. that as Ouza said, we cannot judge another without judging ourselves?...

I don't know what side of your war I would be on yet... There's too much that still hasn't been decided in the world for me to say "I give up on you, living beings." Yahweh is undoubtedly my enemy. As they said in the Matrix, to paraphrase, "before they awaken, the people you are trying to save are still a part of the system, and they will do everything in their power to defeat you." But, because of the hatred that I have for him, and the love that I remember for people before he and his kind came, I wish only for them to be destroyed - the gods who control the world... - and for a return to the days when we lived in peace and balance. Those were very good days. Humans were there, and they were holy then. That has been stripped from them, and without an ability to know their true selves, they grope in the dark, creating crimes beyond the worst that we can imagine. But we are no less a whole... what hurts one, ultimately hurts all. Isn't that also the rule of Gaia? Harmony and balance? What will happen to this harmony without humankind?

There are some things, I think, that are supposed to be a part of Creation. And when something threatens them, all of Creation reels.

I have gone up against him many times, trying to free humanity from his grasp. I failed each time and eventually was split into pieces and confined to the dark...

I can imagine that you and I have fought side by side in times before against them... and I wouldn't hope for those times again, we suffered as much as they did, I think....
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 8:16 am

I'm not suggesting that humanity is not a blight on the earth, but we are not all bad and we are not beyond redemption. Stop whinging about how we're all murderers just because it makes it easier to justify your position. Stop ignoring the beauty we create, the enormous love and compassions we can genearate.

Humanity is suffering from a cancer and the direct interference of 'higher' beings is responsible for the heart of it. Cut out the cancer and we can be redeemed. Of course, that's too much trouble isn't it. It's easier to justify to yourself that we're all irredeemable and wipe us all out.

This is personal and it comes down to this. Who on this forum believes that I should be summarily wiped from the face of the earth?
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 8:33 am

Ish, you are beautiful. Humanity as a whole?... We've all come to a consensus through our comments that that is not how we feel.

Like Kur said, in dealing with people you find a few beautiful ones, a few who are truly committed to good and change for all, and committed to creating balance. Likewise to Kur, I would suggest that you only truly find a few who are truly bad, who are committed to exploitation. As for the rest?

A few choice words come to mind... but at the most I would say... "consumers," "sheep," "followers." And I agree that that is not their fault... as you said Ish, look at the damage to the connection we had with the Earth, the damage to the connections that we had between ourselves. And you are right, all of that has been orchestrated. There is less, and less everyday that "normal people" can do about the situations that they are placed in. An idyllic "mass uprising" is out-of-the-question. "They" have seen to that... making it increasingly undesireable to be part of the change.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 9:04 am

Ishtahar wrote:
I'm not suggesting that humanity is not a blight on the earth, but we are not all bad and we are not beyond redemption. Stop whinging about how we're all murderers just because it makes it easier to justify your position. Stop ignoring the beauty we create, the enormous love and compassions we can genearate.

Humanity is suffering from a cancer and the direct interference of 'higher' beings is responsible for the heart of it. Cut out the cancer and we can be redeemed. Of course, that's too much trouble isn't it. It's easier to justify to yourself that we're all irredeemable and wipe us all out.

This is personal and it comes down to this. Who on this forum believes that I should be summarily wiped from the face of the earth?

... Goddammit, what do you suggest be done...? I will be the first to admit that I don't HATE humanity in any sense of the word in general; I just... I dislike what they do, what they've BECOME... I don't hate them, but if they stay, they'll eventually deplete resources and then they'll eventually destroy THEMSELVES... My position against Yahweh is firm and unchanging, but humans...?

I... I honestly don't know what to do... I'm at a complete loss...

I know I've been agreeing with Kur, but I just don't know what ELSE can be done to restore order and Balance other than... the... destruction of humanity... If it NEEDS to be done, I will see to it that when the time is right, I assist in that... But to be honest... to be completely, TRULY honest...

I DON'T want to see humanity disappear if they don't have to... At least not the good ones... Because you're right, Ish: not every human is a murderer, and if I implied that by agreeing with Kur, then I'm sorry. But again, you are right; you are so RIGHT! Humanity IS capable of such great things though they are misguided... Capable of so much love and good and other things...

Just saying "I desire the destruction of humankind" places a guilty weight on my heart because I'm lying to myself and all of you if I say that. But, the way I see it, either humanity is destroyed in the war or a similar event, or they destroy THEMSELVES...

... Dammit, this is hard... I'm... just at a loss... I'm lost and scared at a fork in the road, and I don't know which path to take...
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 9:32 am

((reassuring arm around shoulder)) Wink Many of us are searching for those answers, Melari. It's so good that we have the chance to discuss them and feel them out.

I've been in many a situation in those times when I went directly from feeling to acting :/... which is probably why I didn't win those wars. Everything that we're talking about - everything - is a lot more complex on the inside than it seems on the surface. And we have time to understand our feelings and thoughts and to reach good conclusions that serve our hearts.

Understand that those conclusions may not all match Smile But they are all needed... "We're all here to do, what we're all here to do." In other words, to live the purpose that we all decided on, long ago, long before we came.

Part of the "fun" is in remembering that purpose. So, have fun
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 3:10 pm

The world is sick and in need of healing. Humanity is largely stuck in a capitalist system, with corrupt politics that ignores the well-being of their/our own race and causes destruction to nature, all in the name of money and power. We are ridden with greed and corruption. Some of what is happening could even be termed evil on a Biblical scale. I'm sure that many of us, human and kin alike, hate what's happening and are sick of it, but what do we do? The system and the corruption of politics is so deeply engrained that there isn't much any one individual, or even a group of people can do about it, even with the purest heart and best intentions.

As the angel of nature and wild animals, as the Lightkeeper, as a dragon, as a human, and everything else that I am, what is happening to the Earth hurts me deeply, beyond words. I feel your pain, Kur. However, the idea of completely wiping out humanity hurts me just as much.

I have known my purpose for most of my life: to save the Earth. And I admit I am usually more concerned about the welfare of animals and nature than humans. However, I see the possibility of paradise; humanity and nature living in peace and harmony, and the return of magic. I want to make this happen. Humanity is far from being beyond repair. Humanity can live in peace and harmony with the Earth, just look at the indigenous peoples around the world. Humanity is more powerful and magical than they know, they have forgotten. It is time for them to remember and wake up. But in order to create this Vision, a large, and perhaps dramatic change is needed.

I have no feelings about this Yahweh or the Sky God. It's like a blank spot in my memory. However, I wonder if our old Enemy has anything to do with the current state of affairs. That black, corrupt energy that seeks only to destroy and manipulate. Perhaps it has worked it's way into the energies around this planet, corrupted humans and gods alike, and has been here for a long time. If so, that is our true enemy, not humans or gods. It is time for a Shift. Perhaps that's why so many of us are here at this time.

Let us find the middle ground, dismiss our old quarrels if there were any, and work together. Let us destroy the corruption and greed and replace it with peace and balance. Let us save and heal nature, as well as humanity, and teach humanity how to honor and respect the earth, and live in harmony. 
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Kur

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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 3:53 pm

Ouza wrote:
You are judging ego's on this planet not spirit which encases the essence of us all! Try to differentiate between the two more closely because in essence you are ultimately judging yourselves!

You may perceive yourself spiritually as other than human and in your minds eye the causes may be justifiable to a point of no return but you lack that essence of true discernment for the overall picture.

Nobody said we had to like it but whether or not we like it or not we for better or worse are all here in embodiment for purposes beyond your recognition for this moment in time! I have fought too many people and too many wars over numerous lifetimes and I have ultimately chosen not to argue over who is on top or what's on the bottom!

Chaoskampf (Chaos's struggle) funny how you should use a German word to describe your suffering that Hitler so ultimately tried and failed in order to establish his own kingdom here on earth. I am saddened by your words here and I pray you change for the betterment of all spiritual beings in your final choice of that path which you are ultimately to follow!

Ouza Like a Star @ heaven


Indeed, I AM only judging the human ego, NOT their spirit. I have no desire to devour souls. It's not as if I derive some pleasure from the judgement I must mete out. My goal when it comes to the human species is only to end it, not to torture or imprison their souls for all time. The spirits that inhabit human form may travel any which way they choose after the coming war.

I seek freedom and balance on this planet for the rest of the species that humans dominate. Humans enslave others and disrupt the balance. Since they will not check themselves to any meaningful degree, I must step in.

Bizarre that you take one common word from the German language and tie to to Hitler, as if the very language was now polluted with evil. Funny how you don't do this with English words, although Americans have committed a great many atrocities themselves, including during that time period. Read up on the Philippines.

Also, even more strange that you would invoke such a metaphor when Hitler's chosen race philosophy would apply much more to speciesist humans, who value themselves above the hundred or so species they are responsible for making extinct daily, and the millions that die daily to sate their various lusts. The holocaust of animals has been going on for thousands of years, and to the animal nations, humans are the Nazis. You are like the Germans who perhaps didn't participate, but certainly stood by and did nothing.

The resistance will bring the war to your shores.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 4:02 pm

Indeed, I do agree with your points, Ashtart. In an ideal world, I would have time to go to every human, take them by the hand, and show them the path to harmony with Gaia. Unfortunately, time is no longer a luxury we have. If humans cannot change, I will have to take up my duty as the fangs of Gaia. I do hope you join us when the time comes.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 4:14 pm

How does more killing bring justice to killing?


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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 4:24 pm

Ishtahar wrote:
I'm not suggesting that humanity is not a blight on the earth, but we are not all bad and we are not beyond redemption. Stop whinging about how we're all murderers just because it makes it easier to justify your position. Stop ignoring the beauty we create, the enormous love and compassions we can genearate.

Humanity is suffering from a cancer and the direct interference of 'higher' beings is responsible for the heart of it. Cut out the cancer and we can be redeemed. Of course, that's too much trouble isn't it. It's easier to justify to yourself that we're all irredeemable and wipe us all out.

This is personal and it comes down to this. Who on this forum believes that I should be summarily wiped from the face of the earth?

Ishathar, know that I understand every word, and I agree totally. You must understand the years I have spent toiling over this conundrum. Truly we are between Scylla and Charybdis. However, the beauty you create is not enough to cancel out the extreme toll your species is carrying out.

What you ask for is this. I allow humans to continue on, and within a hundred years, more than half the current species on earth will become extinct. HALF. And this is not even including all the species we have already killed off. Desertification will begin to consume the land that our modern agricultural practices have only been keeping together with finite, petro-based fertilizers. Water sources are heavily polluted, and the aquifers which take millions of years to develop are being utterly wasted. Global warming is causing an upsurge of insects which can cause farmers to lose more crops than normal, and serious potential to spread disease. The seas, which are a vital link in the web of life, will become nearly barren.
Within a hundred years, humans will begin to die off anyway due to hunger and lack of fresh water. Society will totally crumble because governments will not be able to control billions of starving, diseased people. People will wander into forests, formerly protected by governments, and hunt what few megafauna remain. Groups will splinter off, some becoming like warlords, controlling land and resources with deadly intent. And Gaia will be utterly and completely spent. This is the future that awaits us on this course. I have spent many maddening years researching this subject, hoping to find some way to turn the tide, and turned up short.

Certainly you can see that perpetuating your species is a selfish pursuit, motivated more by your biology than rationality. I do not yet know what my powers will be when the time comes, or what powers I will have at my disposal. I promise you though, that if I can, I will only render your species infertile. You will be able to live out the remainder of your human lives in any way you see fit, then you will be free to reincarnate as another species, or go about your way among the spirits.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 4:30 pm

I think the true measure of a warrior is when his sword is put down, not when it is raised. The real war is does not involve killing. The real battle doesnt involve weapons. The true battle is Fear v.s. Love. You feel that killing is necessary for fear that a planet will be destroyed. For fear that the race will kill other species... but this is an error. Fear is what got humanity in this mess in the first place.

Before you learn to fight, learn when not to fight.

I always felt the war I was in now, was a war of nonaction. Someone can not spread violence and hatred with out a solider of some sort. Since that is the nature of my spirit; a warrior. Winning will be not fighting at all. Not joining and supporting fear-based causes.

So, as a spirit, do you want to be in fear, or in love? Because this is the real choice... not evil, good... right wrong... but energy frequency... Look at all your values, which are based in fear, and which in love?

People always say 'kill them all' because they mistakenly think of it as a quick solution, when in reality it creates a massive stain embedded deep within the very genetic code of that race. Details will fade, but the feeling of wrong doing will always be there, the resentment.
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Kur

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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 4:37 pm

Ari'el wrote:
The world is sick and in need of healing. Humanity is largely stuck in a capitalist system, with corrupt politics that ignores the well-being of their/our own race and causes destruction to nature, all in the name of money and power. We are ridden with greed and corruption. Some of what is happening could even be termed evil on a Biblical scale. I'm sure that many of us, human and kin alike, hate what's happening and are sick of it, but what do we do? The system and the corruption of politics is so deeply engrained that there isn't much any one individual, or even a group of people can do about it, even with the purest heart and best intentions.

As the angel of nature and wild animals, as the Lightkeeper, as a dragon, as a human, and everything else that I am, what is happening to the Earth hurts me deeply, beyond words. I feel your pain, Kur. However, the idea of completely wiping out humanity hurts me just as much.

I have known my purpose for most of my life: to save the Earth. And I admit I am usually more concerned about the welfare of animals and nature than humans. However, I see the possibility of paradise; humanity and nature living in peace and harmony, and the return of magic. I want to make this happen. Humanity is far from being beyond repair. Humanity can live in peace and harmony with the Earth, just look at the indigenous peoples around the world. Humanity is more powerful and magical than they know, they have forgotten. It is time for them to remember and wake up. But in order to create this Vision, a large, and perhaps dramatic change is needed.

I have no feelings about this Yahweh or the Sky God. It's like a blank spot in my memory. However, I wonder if our old Enemy has anything to do with the current state of affairs. That black, corrupt energy that seeks only to destroy and manipulate. Perhaps it has worked it's way into the energies around this planet, corrupted humans and gods alike, and has been here for a long time. If so, that is our true enemy, not humans or gods. It is time for a Shift. Perhaps that's why so many of us are here at this time.

Let us find the middle ground, dismiss our old quarrels if there were any, and work together. Let us destroy the corruption and greed and replace it with peace and balance. Let us save and heal nature, as well as humanity, and teach humanity how to honor and respect the earth, and live in harmony. 

Thanks for your response, I welcome any that are in service to Gaia.

I would love to see a world where humans have returned to the natural order of things. If you have any ideas for how we would make this dream come into fruition within the next 50 years, I would stand by it.

As for indigenous people, I should remind you that indigenous people were largely, though not totally responsible for the 5th mass extinction in the earth's history, corresponding with the end of the ice age. It has been documented that wherever humans ventured in their migration across the globe, a localized mass extinction soon followed. Humans still have a great capacity for destruction, no matter what their level of "civilization" is. The myth of the "noble savage" is just that, myth.

If there is a corrupt energy at work, as some on this board have experienced, then we have a common foe. Certainly we can work together on that problem if we can put aside our differences.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 4:49 pm

sagehawk wrote:
I think the true measure of a warrior is when his sword is put down, not when it is raised. The real war is does not involve killing. The real battle doesnt involve weapons. The true battle is Fear v.s. Love. You feel that killing is necessary for fear that a planet will be destroyed. For fear that the race will kill other species... but this is an error. Fear is what got humanity in this mess in the first place.

Before you learn to fight, learn when not to fight.

I always felt the war I was in now, was a war of nonaction. Someone can not spread violence and hatred with out a solider of some sort. Since that is the nature of my spirit; a warrior. Winning will be not fighting at all. Not joining and supporting fear-based causes.

So, as a spirit, do you want to be in fear, or in love? Because this is the real choice... not evil, good... right wrong... but energy frequency... Look at all your values, which are based in fear, and which in love?

People always say 'kill them all' because they mistakenly think of it as a quick solution, when in reality it creates a massive stain embedded deep within the very genetic code of that race. Details will fade, but the feeling of wrong doing will always be there, the resentment.

The problem with this sentimentality is that while it sounds nice on paper, it simply doesn't work in the real world. For example, pacifist tactics didn't work against the Nazi's, it played right into their hands. It took war and violent resistance to end their genocidal rampage. How many more would have died if the resistance were run in your tactical route?

I can assure you, without doubt, that my motives are based in love. If you think otherwise about me, then I don't think you've read very carefully through my posts, nor do you understand the severity of the situation at hand.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 4:54 pm

Dearest Kur,

Life is a metaphor and you should look at my age as I am the oldest in this lifetime to all who are members to this forum. Plus I for one was stationed in Germany for 2 years with Nuclear Weapons SASCOM. During this lifetime I have fought in Korea, Vietnam, Thailand and the cold war in Europe perhaps this ego that I have now tends to only remember that which you haven't since the 1940's.

I understand your ill will and don't discount it lightly for I unlike your parents do care about you and show the deepest respect for your ideas and notions although I don't always agree with them. But I can't ideally sit by and allow you to lose all perception and hope for the overall picture. If your cause is right would you be the first to put yourselves ahead of the others and die for that which you so dearly desire?

We can come together in and on this only if all would allow it to happen! I have no strings attached nor any desire of notoriety for my feelings on this just matter and cause. I bow to the soul that is truly you in kindness, respect and love! But I cannot allow such atrocities to continue in the name of self greed and aggrandizement and that so called good intentions!

Perhaps if it comes to physical confrontation someday on this... that all sides will allow a moment in time beforehand to bow and reflect to one another out of respect for those souls that we so dearly love!

For in fact we are all one and the same.

Ouza Like a Star @ heaven
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 5:13 pm

Kur wrote:
sagehawk wrote:
I think the true measure of a warrior is when his sword is put down, not when it is raised. The real war is does not involve killing. The real battle doesnt involve weapons. The true battle is Fear v.s. Love. You feel that killing is necessary for fear that a planet will be destroyed. For fear that the race will kill other species... but this is an error. Fear is what got humanity in this mess in the first place.

Before you learn to fight, learn when not to fight.

I always felt the war I was in now, was a war of nonaction. Someone can not spread violence and hatred with out a solider of some sort. Since that is the nature of my spirit; a warrior. Winning will be not fighting at all. Not joining and supporting fear-based causes.

So, as a spirit, do you want to be in fear, or in love? Because this is the real choice... not evil, good... right wrong... but energy frequency... Look at all your values, which are based in fear, and which in love?

People always say 'kill them all' because they mistakenly think of it as a quick solution, when in reality it creates a massive stain embedded deep within the very genetic code of that race. Details will fade, but the feeling of wrong doing will always be there, the resentment.

The problem with this sentimentality is that while it sounds nice on paper, it simply doesn't work in the real world. For example, pacifist tactics didn't work against the Nazi's, it played right into their hands. It took war and violent resistance to end their genocidal rampage. How many more would have died if the resistance were run in your tactical route?

I can assure you, without doubt, that my motives are based in love. If you think otherwise about me, then I don't think you've read very carefully through my posts, nor do you understand the severity of the situation at hand.
Again, you are not seeing the greater picture here. You expect everything to change in 50 years.... you want instant gratification.... instant results. Obviously in direct violence, you should defend yourself. I am not talking about that. I am talking about being passive in teaching our children that war solves nothing, and that it is not an option. I am talking about only focusing on defensive warfare, not offensive. If you talk war, war, war that is all you will pass on. We need to start passing on Peace. It will not be solved in 50 years.... that is a ridiculously short time frame. It took how many thousands of years to make this mess....? Took how many generations drilling war in to our children? Now thats all we think about! We can not hope to save the planet if we cant even stop killing each other over disagreements.

In the past life I had with the Amazons, they never declared war.... others declared war on them, and they fended them off. Starting a fight in any sense was shameful...but finishing one was very much glorified. Perhaps if people took this mentality today, that starting fights was shameful... by the time our great grandchildren come, peace wont be an idea... but a lifestyle, a culture. Ideas are more powerful than anything... ideas are unstopable... that is what I am talking about. Create peace, be what you want to see.... if everyone did this there would be nothing but love. To do anything but this, is creating the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Hmm, I don't know how many times I can explain myself. It's not that I expect instant gratification, or that I expect things to change in 50 years. They HAVE to, or there will be nothing left TO change. If you think things are going to more or less be as they are today in 50 years, you are gravely mistaken. Things today are positively idyllic compared to how bad it's going to get within this century.

You can't even see your own speciesism through your privilege. Think for one minute what it must be like to be any other living being trying to endure in a human dominated world. Unlike you, I must take their sufferings into account as well, and not merely dismiss them to the "silly wayward humans".

I advocate the extinction of one species to save half the current species on Earth, and I'm vilified, while people like you pose glacial, one-heart-at-a-time "solutions" that simply will not work in time, then pat yourselves on the back like you've solved world hunger or something. You're content to sit back and watch as humans kill off everything, not willing to do the dirty work and end the problem before there's nothing left to save. Who is the one truly advocating for murder here?

And my mother and I love each other very much, Ouza. You don't have to be a broken, lonely wreck in order to realize the species you were born into is the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 6:11 pm

Curt and very cruel words from someone who in this lifetime has not seen or felt it all except through your schooling and scolding at home and street learning. Sad... very sad! Nor do I look through a pair of rosy colored glasses either at your or at the world as a whole

All you see and hear here, is being judged by what we say or share with you on this forum. You on the other hand don't know us personally and have not walked in the shoes of others in order to come to your own conclusions that you so artfully say and do here.

Ouza Like a Star @ heaven

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Kur

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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Ouza wrote:
Curt and very cruel words from someone who in this lifetime has not seen or felt it all except through your schooling and scolding at home and street learning. Sad... very sad! Nor do I look through a pair of rosy colored glasses either at your or at the world as a whole

All you see and hear here, is being judged by what we say or share with you on this forum. You on the other hand don't know us personally and have not walked in the shoes of others in order to come to your own conclusions that you so artfully say and do here.

Ouza Like a Star @ heaven


Was simply responding to your quote here "I understand your ill will and don't discount it lightly for I unlike your parents do care about you". It sounded as if you were presuming things about my human life. If that's not the case then I apologize.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 6:42 pm

Accepted and please forget it! Let's all move as one to the next level of Awareness together. lol Smile

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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 6:52 pm

Kur wrote:
Hmm, I don't know how many times I can explain myself. It's not that I expect instant gratification, or that I expect things to change in 50 years. They HAVE to, or there will be nothing left TO change. If you think things are going to more or less be as they are today in 50 years, you are gravely mistaken. Things today are positively idyllic compared to how bad it's going to get within this century.

You can't even see your own speciesism through your privilege. Think for one minute what it must be like to be any other living being trying to endure in a human dominated world. Unlike you, I must take their sufferings into account as well, and not merely dismiss them to the "silly wayward humans".

I advocate the extinction of one species to save half the current species on Earth, and I'm vilified, while people like you pose glacial, one-heart-at-a-time "solutions" that simply will not work in time, then pat yourselves on the back like you've solved world hunger or something. You're content to sit back and watch as humans kill off everything, not willing to do the dirty work and end the problem before there's nothing left to save. Who is the one truly advocating for murder here?

And my mother and I love each other very much, Ouza. You don't have to be a broken, lonely wreck in order to realize the species you were born into is the problem.
No I guess I just have more faith in mother nature... instead of a damsel in distress, I see her as a warrior....one that can take care of herself. If she wants us gone, we will be gone. She wont need you to do it. Not to mention most of the extinct animals would have been so with out humans..... Earth has a 0% survival rate. I gues my real issue with your veiws is that they are egotistical... you think you have all this power over the earth just like any other human...you think also that the earth is dead and doesnt know whats going on. So you've decided that you will be the one to decide which species should live and which should not.

You are no better than your own view of humanity itself. Playing judge, jury and executioner...
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 7:22 pm

sagehawk wrote:
No I guess I just have more faith in mother nature... instead of a damsel in distress, I see her as a warrior....one that can take care of herself. If she wants us gone, we will be gone. She wont need you to do it. Not to mention most of the extinct animals would have been so with out humans..... Earth has a 0% survival rate. I gues my real issue with your veiws is that they are egotistical... you think you have all this power over the earth just like any other human...you think also that the earth is dead and doesnt know whats going on. So you've decided that you will be the one to decide which species should live and which should not.

You are no better than your own view of humanity itself. Playing judge, jury and executioner...

There are many forces at work in nature, and the subject is complicated. It's not just a matter of Gaia phasing humans out of existence. The way she affects change is through external forces (tornadoes, floods, fires, disease, etc.) which are governed by beings like me, which are in turn governed by various laws of the universe. If she had the power to do what you suggest, we would not be having this conversation right now.
Besides, she has called upon me for aid before, it is no different now.
And no, your statement about animal extinction flies in the face of every study done on the recent extinction crisis. It's like saying it's ok for you to kill someone because they would die anyway. The main reason that animals have been going extinct is because of habitat loss/deforestation, followed closely by pollution and hunting. Please do your research before making wild claims.
From my perspective, it's egotistical to claim that a single species is worth more than every other species on earth combined. I'm simply being realistic about the not very good options presented before me.
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Tue May 08, 2012 10:55 pm

Remember to respect each others views and opinions and do not take this fascinating discussion to a personal level. If if becomes personal and attacking, this thread will be closed.

Az

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Through Shadows falling out of memory and time...
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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Wed May 09, 2012 12:47 am

Az,

Like your new signature it is very apropos for the moment... Annie Lennox isn't it.... from the LOTR Trilogy?

Good singer and good choice my brother!

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PostSubject: Re: The chaoskampf, and the war against Gaia   Thu May 10, 2012 11:32 am

Very cool new sig, Az Smile I like it too. Don't know the song. What song is that?

Had a chance to watch the video that Sagehawk posted, just now. It really made me think. Like, when I went abroad I became utterly convinced that war is useless. What it produces is far worse than what it's supposed to prevent. ... We went to places like Vietnam and India and South Africa, and we learned about Cambodia. There were trips to go to Cambodia during the voyage, but I didn't go on any of them... what I heard back though, and the looks on the travelers' faces...

War is an atrocity upon the world... but we've all fought them.

I think.... most wars in this day and age are not for the reasons that people are told they are for. And even if there are diplomatic problems, I don't understand how those problems cannot be solved with diplomacy. I read a story the other day about how Sweden (? maybe Norway? I may not remember the countries at all accurately) and Denmark are fighting over a little piece of land. But their fighting consists mainly of patrolling ships that raise their flags when they come in sight of each other and then sail away o_o.

Who knows if or when there are times when violence is appropriate but... if there were wars being fought today for good reasons (which I don't think there are) would that make them just? ...

That whole "Kony" thing, with the guy who forces children into being child soldiers. That seems worth killing over. It might still be terrible... it *would* still be terrible... but...

However, if it came down to armed "revolution" here, I wouldn't sign up for it anymore, because f what I learned in that trip. Everyone wants to be loved. Everyone wants to protect something. Everyone wants to be reached out to. Anti-violence has been instrumental in transforming nations so far because it appeals to the part of the human mind that knows that we are all related and connected. Who knows that to harm one is to harm yourself. Anti-violence is not just anti-violence - it is the transmission of love. Love is more transformational than hatred. The main problem is whether an issue can be confronted with love in enough time.

In the "Kony" situation? Well, if his friends and family could be convinced to confront him in love and to refuse to let him go on with what he does, yes, anti-violence would be most effective. But if not... violence would be best.

So, the question that I see this posing is... are the "two sides" in this conflict irreconcilable? Does humankind no longer know its bonds with the natural world? A part of me says overwhelmingly that yes, humans do, and if they are pushed, they will remember. And there is evidence for the beginning of a shift in all consciousness... one that is supposed to save this world.

Also, I want to mention that the progress of reading through the responses and the initial post to this thread have helped me tremendously. It helped to cement in more of that "magical" self that keeps lying at the outside of my perimeter, wanting to me to be more fully her all the time. I don't know what exactly it was but... that goddess self, I realize now, has been trying to come through more powerfully for days. I'd been resisting her up until reading through this.

Thanks guys Smile
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