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 ARCHIVE: New, & confused, I'd really appreciate an opinion.

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ARCHIVE: New, & confused, I'd really appreciate an opinion. Empty
PostSubject: ARCHIVE: New, & confused, I'd really appreciate an opinion.   ARCHIVE: New, & confused, I'd really appreciate an opinion. EmptyThu May 06, 2010 10:47 am

From Erin 12 Oct 2007

Hello, I'm Erin.

I found this site using otherkin.net, under the link "angelic".
Very recently I've been trying to learn more and more about otherkin, the lifestyles, etc.
Reading about all of it truly makes me feel at home.
But more than that, confused.
I find myself very drawn to vampirism, and this, angelicism. Both fascinate me. I want to embrace both and learn as much as I can.
I feel like (with the little I know) I can identify with both.

I truly believe to embrace a lifestyle such as one of these, it is a choice, not something that is forced. I don't read the symptoms and think "yes that sounds like me", but I feel like I could happy living that way.

Is it wrong for me to want both ?

Is it wrong for me to think I can obtain either?

From Azaz'el 12 Oct 2007

Hi Erin,

welcome to the site, I hope that we can provide a safe place for you to look at and question much about life and your Otherkin qualities. As you can see, we only set up this site a short time ago to answer the need for a place for all shadow, angel and fallen to come to. As such, if you feel there is anything that should be added, please let us know.

One of the biggest confusing aspects of Otherkin is knowing just who and what you are. Generally there is the opinion that no one can tell you, it is something that you, and you only, can come to understand. Whilst I agree that you will be the only person who knows what you feel or think or want, I believe that help and advice can be given.

You are drawn to the lifestyle, drawn to the energy and concept of Otherkin, of Vampyres and Shadow (angel) Kin. As you are drawn to it in such a strong way, even to the point of wanting to accept that lifestyle, do you think that you are a Vampyre or Shadow? It is possible that you are and that you are now beginning the process of awakening. This is when we begin to understand that life, that existence, isn't just human, but has other aspects.... souls that are older, different, not human.

The process of awakening is very confusing, dificult and irritating. It can seem as if there is so much knowledge "out there" but no one is telling you anything. Really that is because no one can tell you, the answer has to come from within.

As far as wanting to be somehow connected to Otherkin - you don't necessarily think you have the symptoms but feel very drawn to the concept and lifestyle - isn't wrong and it is possible for you to live that way. There are humans out there who know of our world and work with us. But I think at the moment it would be helpful for you to understand which aspects you are drawn to. And if you are human or something else and now facing the beginning of your awakening.

What does anyone else think?


From "Guest" 14 Oct 2007

Yes Erin.
It is possible to be both kin; vampire and angel-kin.

Azazel, I think something Erin needs a little help with is finding more information on angel-kin.

Where would someone find more in-depth information on angel-kin, other than what Shadow of the Fallen has already posted?

From Azaz'el 14 Oct 2007

Hi Guest,

thanks for your post..... why not register so that we can all chat to you by name.

The problem with trying to find information on angel-kin is that there is so much information out there in the public domain that focuses on myths and untruths, that it can become very difficult to see what is real, what is mythological and what is role-play.

I started this site, with the help and occasional kick from Ishtahar, so that we could start collating information, not only from our memories, but also from free information in the public domain and from the thoughts and members of this forum and website. So we're not here to role-play or to discuss fluffy cherubs, as you know, we're here to talk about the real awakening of Kin.

Many of the sites in existence focus a lot on other types of Kin, such as Vamps, Were, or general therian, and elvish. But the angel or shadow information is scarce. So other than my own, there are no sites I have found that I would feel comfortable recommending. Do you have some you think would be helpful?

Both Ish and I see our roles here as being one where we can collate and bring together information, so that all of us can share what we know and remember the bonds that link us. So if you have anything that may be of use, why not register and share with us.


From Ishtahar 15 Oct 2007

Hello Erin, welcome to our site.

Feeling drawn to a way of life is very different from awakening to an understanding of what you truly are.

If you are simply looking for a path to tread, a way of life to follow,( and dont get me wrong I am not in any way suggesting there is anything at all wrong in that and would be happy to help and support you in any way I could to achieve that) then it is purely a matter of choice and it is perfectly possible and even desirable, to take what you want from all paths / lifestyles and blend them to make one that is truly your own.

If on the other hand you are awakening or becoming then what you are doing is beginning to understand something that you are and always were. This is a totally different thing as there is no question of making a choice about what you want to be but only in learning about and accepting what you are.

I would suggest that you take a two pronged approach. On the one hand look at all the things that you find attractive about vampyres, angels and anything else that attracts you, take a little from each and examine what you have taken, see how it fits together....or not, what feels right....and wrong. Be totally honest and dont be afraid to change your mind and discard things if you try them and they dont feel right.

On the other hand look inside yourself and see what is coming from there. If you can, meditate a little every day and see what messages your soul is sending you. IF something attracts you about vampyres, look into yourself to see if you can find the place it touches, if something attracts you about angels see if is something which is uniquely about angels or whether it is something that can apply to more than one kin (and vice versa)

Dont forget to look at what is truth and what is not. A lot of popularly held myths and beliefs about all kin is untrue and made up.....for example the bite of a werewolf will not turn a human into a werewolf, vampyres do not turn to dust in sunlight, angels have nothing to do with GOD and are not beings of pure goodness (or naked babies with rediculously small wings).

I know that this all looks daunting but the most important thing for you always to remember when you are looking at any spiritual path is to listen to your own inner voice before you listen to the voices of anyone else. If you can get past your prejudices and fears and listen to the true still small voice within you already have all the answers you need.

If there is anything at all we can do to help you find your place then please do ask and we will do our best to help

From Eryndor 16 Oct 2007

No probs Azazel, that earlier Guest was I, Lythium
Just following up on my girlfriends Intro to the site :]

From Erin___ 18 Oct 2007

Thanks very much.
I really appreciate the replies.

what you said about blending bits and pieces from other lifestyles, etc to create my own really interests me.
But what I'm wondering, is from this specific lifestyle, what pieces would I be able to use ?
Is there a philosophy? Rituals? etc.

Maybe that isn't very clear..
but I'm very interested in learning as much as I can, it's just very difficult to find information.
I feel like I'm missing the bigger picture.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense.
I'd appreciate all the help and opinions I can get though.

From Ishtahar 18 Oct 2007

I think I understand what you mean. You are looking for guidance as to what the Fallen believe, what they wear, what music they listen to etc..is that right? Forgive me if I am wrong and about to go off on a completely wrong track....I frequently do biggrin.gif

There are many different kinds of people who work with angel / angelic energies, images etc. I cannot speak for others and you would need to look further on the internet to find them.

You need to remember that religion, myth and culture have put so many layers over what is 'angelic' or 'an angel' that it has pretty much obscured reality to the extent that it can be more or less what you want it to be.

This site is about The Fallen. The Fallen are, according to one definition....angels, the place from which they fell was Eden. As I was and am not precisely one of them I cannot presume to talk to you about what their culture and customs were. Az can probably tell you more but he is only beginning to remember.

As for now, the spirits of the Fallen who are coming together are residing in all sorts of bodies and they are too few to be able to say that they have a culture all of their own.

If you want to know about 'traditional' rituals, theories etc relating to angels then have a look at 'The Book of Enoch' and the works of John Dee. I have not gone into Dee in depth but I believe that he gives rituals etc although i have not worked with them.

I have a great deal of schepticism about anything that claims to be able to summon angels or even to tap into angelic energies. Angels are very very different to humans, they have different energies and different morals. They are not beings of pure good, shining white lights who only want to guard and protect humans....they are complex beings of enormous power and sometimes dubuious agendas.

You need to be very careful if you want to try rituals etc but again I am sure that Az is far better able to explain this to you.

For me, being involved with The Fallen is rather like being beaten repeatedly over the head with a pink fluffy bunny. It hurts like hell but you cant help but love it. biggrin.gif

From Azaz'el 18 Oct 2007

QUOTE (Ishtahar @ Oct 18 2007, 03:54 PM)
"For me, being involved with The Fallen is rather like being beaten repeatedly over the head with a pink fluffy bunny. It hurts like hell but you cant help but love it. biggrin.gif"

ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!

I think this is one of the best quotes I have ever heard! Thank you so much!

I'll reply to this more later, once I have stopped laughing.


From Azaz'el 19 Oct 2007

I still have a smile on my face from what Ish has said, but I'm getting over it now!

Erin, I think the best way to look at it is this: if it feels right and does not cause pain, hurt or deliberately offend others, then the lifestyle you want to make is right.

There isn't really a specifically angelic or Fallen or Shadow lifestyle as there aren't that many who are open or 'out' just yet. The general consensus at present is that the Shadow are the main ruling body out there, and are not best pleased (still) with the Fallen... so we tend to try and blend in until enough of us have gone through our awakening and can then join together. That's party the reason for this site - to bring us together with those who are curious, who agree with us, will stand with us.

Generally most Fallen tend towards the Gothic lifestyle. There is a love of black and red, or long flowing clothing, of styles that are simple and clean but hark back to the past.

Regarding beliefs, this would surprise some, but our spirituality tends to be pagan, not christian. Unfortunately there tends to be the belief still that anything 'angelic' has to be christian. We're not, christianity was just one of the many religious paths that absorbed our legends and history. We belong to a time before christianity, to a time when there was the absolute understanding that we all had a link to the natural world, were part of it, and that there were many godheads, many divine beings all with a purpose, but only one creator. So each country, each civilisation, each world, has its own spiritual path to enlightenment - but all paths head in the same direction. (Or at least they did.) As such, the Fallen, Shadow, Angel Kin come from all countries and not just linked to the middle east.

Angel magic, or Enochian magic, can be very dangerous. It can be like giving a loaded shotgun to a 2 year old and expecting it to know all about gun safety. Using enochian can summon Shadow, and to use the well known adage - once you can see them, they can see you. Be careful when using it. Honour it, link to it, but know your stuff before using it.

Ultimately, the best way forward is to do what you are doing now - become known to and friends with the Fallen, with Shadow, with Otherkin. If you are Human and not Kin, then join us, support us, stand with us and we will (well, at the Fallen will) welcome you into our society and share with you what we know. I know I am not giving many specific details, but as you can guess, there is much to know and learn and remember. All we can do is answer any specific questions we have... accepting, of course, that each individual could give a different answer based on what we do as individual in our own life.

Find what is right for you, but keep asking and if we can help, we will


From Erin___ 21 Oct 2007

Yea, like as far as religion and "style" goes, I guess I'm curious but definately not willing to give up my own beliefs just because I find the Fallen interesting. Not to imply that either of you meant that a person MUST be that way. But I do apprecite your insights.

From what I read, the Fallen are meant to be nurturers, those who work to aid other people.
I think this is part of the reason I feel drawn to it. I am, by nature, someone who seeks to help those who mean a lot to me, but obviously Im not perfect.
I dont ever expect to be perfect.
I think though that coming across this site, and seeing what it said, made me think that maybe if I could live a certain way, I coud be better. Not perfect, but better. Im really hoping this'll make sense to anyone lol.
This is just a theory. I really dont KNOW the reasons.

It seems kind of silly now I suppose, but its the only theory ive got xD

I really dont know where I'm going with this though.
so yeaa

From Ishtahar 21 Oct 2007

Thank you. It is a brave thing to be honest, especially when you are not sure that what you are saying makes sense. Actually it does make sense.

No one is perfect as perfection is an ideal to be aspired to and never to be achieved as is goodness, truth, honour etc. No one can be wholly one sided or they will be out of balance.

I would never expect or indeed encourage anyone to give up their beliefs for me, the site, the fallen or anyone or anything. The only time it is acceptable to give up a belief is if you have through learning found it to be flawed and relpaced it with a more enlightened one.

I think the saying 'Hold on tightly, let go lightly' is a good one

I wish you luck in weaving your own destiny and if we can help you take even one step along the way then we are the luckiest of people. Feel free to take what makes sense leave what doesnt and ask if you are not sure which, And I hope that we will have lots of fun together on the way

From Erin___ 22 Oct 2007

Thank you.
It means a lot to me, to be able to come into this forum so unsure of things, and to be welcomed.

Even in just getting these few replies back and being reassured that its okay to be who I WANT to be, has already made me feel more at ease with myself.
So many websites and things Ive seen are so uptight about being a certain way,
Its nice to know I can still be my own person and be accepted. So thank you.

Out of curiousity Az, dyou have any idea where I could learn more about Enochian magic ?

I've been getting into Wicca lately and I find it interesting. Obviously I wouldnt practice it without knowing it, I completely understand your warning about knowing what youre doing.
But yea, Im just thinking it may be interesting to look into.

From Ishtahar 22 Oct 2007

As usual Az can give more, and much better information but you could try to Google John Dee or Enoch, although most of the hits for Enoch is for the book of Enoch which gives some history and more information, for example on angelic names etc, but nothing about how to work with it,

At the end of the day the most important thing is to find your own way, he path that is right for you. Whatever you choose to be it should be your choice because anything else will be you living your life for others and that never really works.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking the things that fit from many different cultures, societies groups, phylosophies etc and crafting your own, unique, blend. In fact that is the way the world grows and becomes richer. To simply follow the pack, any pack, just leads to stagnation.

Please feel free to question, challenge, take what you want and leave the rest.

It is not easy to carve your own path. It is lonely and can seem at times to be too much like hard work, but persevere and one day your sun will shine so bright that others will be seeking YOUR way rather than you seeking theirs.

From Erin___ 22 Oct 2007

I realize that for me to be happy, I need to create my own blend of things.
I've been doing so for a long time.
I've just only realized it now.


From Azaz'el 22 Oct 2007

To quote TS Elliott:

We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.

Welcome home Erin__, now that you have understood it, you will shine bringhtly on your path.

I'll get some information for you on Enochian magic and pass it to you, but it may not be until towards the weekend if that is okay for you?


From Erin___ 23 Oct 2007

yea, thats completely fine, thanks :]

From Eryndor 23 Oct 2007

Az or Ishtahar?
Do either of you know a variety of names for angel-kin?
I was thinking Nephilim and Enoch but thats all i know?
cherubs too, but those are silly little creatures xD

From Ishtahar 24 Oct 2007

If you are looking for true names I am sorry I dont know. As far as i am aware the original race was what we now call Shadow and have been called Grigori, Malakhi, and some of which are now referred to as The Fallen not to denote difference in race but which side of the civil war they were on.

The children of the Shadow (or angel-kin as opposed to angel...i think I like that better actually) have been known as Nephilym and, I suspect by other names according to myth and legend denoting giants.

I dont think there is any easy answer to that one

PS Cherubim were not silly little creatures...that is only the way popular myth has depicted them. If I remember correctly Cherubim were nasty viscious things with long claws and a liking for hurting people (although that might have been something else...there were certainly no chubby little babies about)

From Lael 24 Oct 2007

QUOTE (Ishtahar @ Oct 24 2007, 12:50 PM)
"If I remember correctly Cherubim were nasty viscious things with long claws and a liking for hurting people (although that might have been something else...there were certainly no chubby little babies about)"

That's just rank, not race - at least where I come from. Individuals with a knack for cruelty just for cruelty's sake happen everywhere, I'm afraid...

Frankly, the idea of chubby babies is rather creepy. tongue.gif I can't imagine anyone I've met and known over the ages to deliberately choose something like that for their self image. If they did, now that would have been one serious reason to worry... xD

From Ishtahar 24 Oct 2007

Yes, I can see that. It certainly seems that in many circumstances those who are given power are often those least suited to bear it.

I have often thought that those who seek power should by definition be denied it and power should only be conferred on those who would be uncomfortable bearing it.

I also agree about the chubby babies. Although I can see an arguement for that kind of image being promoted as a smoke screen or a lure. biggrin.gif

From Azaz'el 24 Oct 2007

I hate to step in and contradict, but I think you've become confused over names Ishtahar .... which considering all the names that exist, it's not surprising. The children of Shadow are not Grigori, but are Nephilim. The Grigori are Shadow.... one of the ranks.

There are 10 ranks in Shadow - cherubs are one of the ranks. Traditionally all the ranks are seen like this:

Naturally, most of us who are Shadow tend not to use these titles any more as they are so associated with christianity or with an image or idea that is so far removed from the truth (such as cherubim) that there's just no point in trying to explain .... by the time some people understand the difference the universe will have grown old!!! huh.gif

As for other names, it depends on your society or native language or spiritual system. Generally the Grigori, the rank I was a part of, have been called Ishim, Watchers, Giants .... and those of us who Fell were also branded with the name Anakin.

You mentioned Enoch. He was the patriarch who was taken into the city of the Shadow and shown our way of life, our way of invoking justice, and our way of teaching. He observed the trials that I and my fellow Anakin faced and after our murder he was transcended. It was one of the early hypocracies that still irritates. We were punished for allowing Ishtahar to transcend and wanting it for other humans, yet for being an impartial witness at our trial, Enoch was transcended and given a position high in the ranks of Shadow.

Anyway, were these the names that you were wondering about or were you wanting to know individual names of specific Shadow or Fallen?


From Eryndor 25 Oct 2007

I was just curious about shadow and nephilim in general.
Great information though, and thank you.

From Ishtahar 25 Oct 2007

Oops I did get it wrong. Sorry, I have edited the post to put it right ohmy.gif

From Azaz'el 26 Oct 2007

I may actually add a list of names to the website when I add information to it in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully that might help not only with the explanation but also generally guide people about the most famous of us!!!

or should that be infamous!! wink.gif


From Ishtahar 27 Oct 2007

Definately infamous.

It would be a good idea to add a list of names and also, possibly some definitions,

for examle, 'theFallen', 'Nephylim', 'Grigori', 'Shadow', maybe even 'kin', 'otherkin', 'vampyres', 'elves' etc

Does anyone have any suggestions for any definitions they would like to put on the site that would clear things up for someone who is new to this

I would suggest

'Shadow' - members of an ancient race who lived in the middle east in a city near the valley of Eden. After having fought a great war with an ancient enemy (and any information on who or what this enemy couild be would be very welcome) they became keepers of the gateways which prevented this enemy returning to this world. They fell into civil war over the issue of their relationship with humanity and the losers of this war became known as 'The Fallen'.

'The Fallen' members of the ancient race known as 'the Shadow' who were persecuted and punished for their love of humanity and their desire to teach and elevate them. Imprisoned in the earth and the stars their immortal souls have begun to free themselves and are awakening again on earth.

'Otherkin / kin' - members of ancient 'magical' races who, like the Shadow have a direct connection to 'The Source'. Possibly having a common origin with Shadow but developed into discrete and separate races including elves, vampyres, unicorns, weres, therians, and many more

'Vampyres' - Otherkin race who feed from the essence of other living things though direct drinking of blood or absorption through the aura.

'Weres / therians' - Otherkin race who share soul / body with one or more animals and are able to transform part or all of their bodies or spirits into those of their 'twin' either pcychically (m-shift) or mysically (p-shift)

I am going to leave elves entirely to you Eryndor.

Please could everyone input into the definitions I have come up with because they are not right but only a beginning, a striving towards. biggrin.gif

From Azaz'el 27 Oct 2007

Would it be helpful for everyone if we had a glossary here on the forum as well as a section on the main Website, where the names coulod be listed and a description given as to what or who they were?

I was just thinking that if we did, hen it might save people from having to keep referring back to the website to remember a name etc etc. Perhaps in the FAQ section?

I'll open a new thread and we can all post in that with the definaitions and then I can edit it later on and produce the glossary list.


From Ishtahar 27 Oct 2007

Good idea

From Dreamsend 27 Oct 2007

Those are all good ideas -- names, definitions and a glossary on here. I don't know what I could contribute, as I haven't seen those things defined in that way anywhere other than here (though, that is the reason I have joined this forum... the definitions I've read here are the ones that really strike that chord of truth in me like nowhere else has). I do know how those are defined in other places, otherkin and vampires for instance, as that's where I've done most of my research.

I hadn't realized for instance that the Shadow were considered to be guardians of gateways (though that felt right). blink.gif

I'll help in whatever way I can.

-- Dreamsend

From Ishtahar 27 Oct 2007

I think it is important that our definitions are as broad as possible so if you have other versions then I think it would be a good thing to post them all. By all means put forward what your definitions may be and they can go in alongside ours

From Eryndor 29 Oct 2007

A good definition for elves would be

"Elves" - Earth based souls who feel the need to draw from and support nature. Elves also work strongly with earth-based magick.
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