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Join date : 2010-02-05

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PostSubject: ARCHIVE: Entheogenics   ARCHIVE: Entheogenics EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 1:42 pm

By Sari'el Feb 4 2008 -

The use of entheogenics is (to the best of my knowlege) a rather widespread practice in shamanism. This goes back to ancient times when psilocybin mushrooms for one were used to instill visions, not to mention ayahuasca brews, well... A lot of things. Besides that from what I've heared there are quite a few vampyres out there who had their awakening due to substance (ab)use...

Any ideas on this? Have any of you ever used an entheogenic for spiritual purposes? And in general, do you approve of it?

Sed


By Ishtahar Feb 5 2008 -

Firstly there is a huge difference between sunbstance abuse for recreational purposes and the use of substances in controlled circumstances for a specific purpose.

You pose a difficult question my friend because I cannot condone substance abuse generally as I have seen the devastating effect it can have, however, neither can I condemn the use of drugs in a shamanic way.

I think that the crucial difference is the intent and therefore the way in which the experience is controlled and evaluated.

I shamanism the effect is specifically sought and focussed with intent. The consciousness is suppressed and the subconscious enhanced thereby opening psychic paths to inner vision. In short the drugs open up parts of us we might otherwise not be able to access.

I think that almost exactly the same thing happens in recreational drug taking but in a far more chaotic way. Because the effects are not specifically sought focussed or directed they open up pathways to different places, places we are not prepared for and because we are not being directive and controlled they are not shut down afterwards and continue to exhert a negative effect on our psyche. I think that this is why certain drugs have a sapping effect when their effects are wearing off. In short we are walking around with our psychic centres wide open and all the channels sucking in experienced from this world and others and we just pull in all the energies that surround us positive and negative and we dont stop until we are exhausted.

I know that I am sounding very much as if I am engaging in just this kind of exercise at the moment but I wasnt really sure what I was trying to say and hoped that I would work it out as I was writing. I am not sure that I have so I hope that someone else can take up the topic and make more sense of it than I have.


By Dreamsend Feb 6 2008 -

It's an interesting question. I've experienced continued awakening and stretching of the conscious awareness through many tools, and only a few times through the use of a substance, and only those times accidentally.

I've found that alcohol intoxication can have a surprising effect on an awakening psychic =(. *lol* In general most of my growth has not been through the specific use of substances... though the tools I have used have been no less powerful if stories are indication. I've found that - shamanically speaking - the best tools are good old fashioned magickal gatherings en masse (and most of all, fire, drums and dancing for the best effect).

I've never used any other substances, not even by accident, and so I cannot judge on their positive or negative effects. Though I have to theoretically agree with Ishtahar in saying that most drugs and substances will force the body to do what the psyche has not learned to handle - at the least they should never be used without supervision or instruction (say by a shamanic elder trained in such things).


By Sari'el Feb 6 2008 -

Well I guess I have a bit of a confession to make. I used to be a drug addict, amphetamines ravaged my body for a good two years. Besides that I have taken many substances for all the wrong reasons.

About one and a half year after I quit, I had become severely depressed, with some (very) mild psychotic tendencies. At least that's what the doctors said. The called it a schizo-affective disorder, which they based on a state of psychosis I was in WHEN I WAS STILL ADDICTED. According to the diagnostics and statistics manual (basically the holy book of shrinks) one may not, under any circumstances, take symptoms which occured during a period of drug (ab)use into the diagnosis. Therefore they are wrong. They gave me meds, olanzapine. It's an second generation antipsychotic with some anxiolytic and mood-stablilising qualities to it. Basically the perfect cure for what they thought I had.

I used to be a writer, guitarist, songwriter, drawer, dj... Well I did pretty much everything creative I could do. But when they gave me the meds, all of that became impossible for me. The same thing goes for the more advanced energywork. I could only do the most basic things, and even those took great effort. I hardly had any emotions anymore, I simply *couldn't* feel. Even though I'm at a lower dosage, I still can't do anything creatively anymore, but I can't quit them yet. With the lower dosage energywork is possible again, and when I don't take them for a day I'm close to my old potential, though never the same. One has to quit taking them for three weeks for the effects to fully diminish. But I can't do that. Not for another year or so.

Since I live in the Netherlands marijuana is easy to obtain. Now that I'm 18 years old I can even buy and smoke it legally. It saved me. It overrules many of the side effects of my medication, and allows my energy to flow freely. When I was on the higher dosage, I kept my powers up to some extent only because I could practice them when under the influence of marijuana. Now I use it when I want to get some serious work done, and can't quit the meds for a day or so. I can't quit them for a day when I have any work or anything to do because within 24 hours from missing my dosage I start to suffer from withdrawal. I can't eat, feel nausious, dizzy, start sweating... The whole deal.

I'm not a pothead by any means. But it saved me.

Sed.

PS: Mods feel free to delete this post if it goes too far.


By Ishtahar Feb 7 2008 -

I dont think it goes too far at all, in fact I feel very honoured that you were able to share this very personal information with us.

As you say marijuana is legal where you are and therefore you are not doing anything wrong.

If you believe that your doctors have made a wrong diagnosis is it not possible for you to discuss this with them or to ask for a second opinion. Surely if you insist on having them address the reasons why they have made this diagnosis they will have to explain why they have gone against all the textbooks in your case.

It is tragic that your creative energy has been cut off, although there is always the possibility that the meds were simply a means of achieving something which was nevessary for your ultimate growth. It is always difficult to assess just how much something was 'meant to be'. Personally I take the view that if something is wrong in my life I do everything I can to make it right and if, after doing all I can it is still wrong then I just accpet that it is as it was meant to be.

I have tried a number of drugs myself and cant say that I have got much from any of them. Speed makes me talk too much, cannabis makes me sleepy and hungry...not the best when I have a constant struggle with my weight, acid makes me majorly paranoid and the 'various other' have just resulted in a major struggle with my deep need to be in control which inevitably results in nothing more positive than a headache.

I am not even ood with alcohol and I HATE being drunk, although I enjoy being tipsy.

I am such a saddo biggrin.gif

Ish


By Sari'el Feb 8 2008 -

Phew...well I've tried quite a lot of them, some back when I was experimenting just for the fun of it. Yeah, not too smart, I know, but it was fun, mostly, and I learned a few things along the way. Another part of them I've done seeking knowlege into myself, the metaphysical, and for creative purposes. Now do understand that doing this was not strictly illegal. Here in Holland anyone is allowed to use whatever drugs they want on private property. Carrying a small quantity for personal use is not really a crime here, you might get a fine I think but as far as I know it's not a serious issue.

I don't think I could go into this all too far without turning this topic into an account of my own experiences with entheogenics, taking into consideration that in many of the countries people on this forum are in, there is a much stricter policy on narcotics than here. So I was wondering if someone could give me some guidelines on what I can and cannot say on this...

Love,

Sed


By Ishtahar Feb 9 2008 -

Difficult one. I will have a chat with Az and Dreamsend and we will get back to you. In fact it might be a very good idea for us to come up with a general guideline for members regarding what they can and cant post here.

Watch this space biggrin.gif
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