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 ARCHIVE: Forgiveness, How?

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Join date : 2010-02-05

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PostSubject: ARCHIVE: Forgiveness, How?   ARCHIVE: Forgiveness, How? EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 1:55 pm

By Ishtahar Mar 14 2008 -

As Az has mentioned recently we have all been through a lot of pain in our awakening and our lives before.

I am not suggesting that my pain has been any worse than anyone else's only more personal to me.

Az has been very much on my case lately (and quite rightly so) to keep focused o our goal which is unity which requires forgiveness. There is a lot of talk of what many people feel is some kind of cataclysmic event, whether good or bad, destructive or cathartic we cannot yet tell, which is coming our way in the fairly near future. Of course it would be a good thing to face this united with as many of our brethren, human, shadow, fallen and kin of all kinds, as possible.

However much I appreciate this, after all it was the reason we worked so hard on this site and tore ourselves apart in writing it, I am finding it greatly difficult to forgive.

I can forgive mistakes, I can forgive acts of violence done out of necessity at the time, I can forgive senseless destruction done in ignorance but I dont seem able to forgive the sustained and sytematic destruction of innocents, the senseless and relentless persecution of souls through many lives, all for the sake of politics and power.

I do not blame all shadow, not by any means, nor anyone other than the small core of community leaders who orchestrated this and have been reponsible for the violence time after time.

Even now, if they came to me and said sorry, made an effort to make amends, offered to work together in peace and as equals I would forgive in a heartbeat. But how can I forgive and continue to reach out to them in peace and harmony when they not only retain their distance and make no attempt to seek peace but go so far as to attack those I love.

I am struggling with this, really struggling. It is a situation where I KNOW that I should rise above it and be morally strong but .... I am failing. Help.


By Azaz'el Mar 14 2008 -

Perhaps the situation should be looked at from a slightly different perspective. I spent many millennia sitting and watching and waiting, so it is part of the reason why I think before acting in many situations..... usually there is something hidden or unclear that will help if a little patience or a change of view is taken.

I do stand up and shout loudly when there is any discussion about unification. It is why we formed the site, why we were brought together, why we are here now. The bonds have broken, not only for us but also on the Gateways that kept the unknown ancient 'enemy' from our door. Now they are opening those doors and stepping through, and none of the Otherkin or Shadow groups that currently exist are strong enough to stand against this possible threat. It has been said that in order to defeat this 'enemy' we need to unite, reunite and once again be able to link ot the Source and channel through not only the power but also the knowledge to succeed.

So, what of those small band of creatures who started this whole process and still, to this day, attack and drive us down the path of lunacy? Well, if it was down to my own personal choice I would burn their souls out of existence and feed on the remains of their energy. And they know I would and could do this. But they also know I won't, that I look for reconcilliation. And this, perhaps, is why they still attack and taunt.

My reputation goes before me. Mention my name and any Shadow, Fallen or Kin with memories, and they will know what I have done in the past, the troubles I have caused, not to mention beginning this whole cycle with human involvement. And yet I stand here and offer peace and sanctuary. Why? If I attack or retalliate against those who are currently attacking, they will have just cause to say to all Shadow "look at him, he is no better than he once was and his talk of peace is empty." If I fight back they will win..... the actions we take in this life now will be used to judge us, the Fallen, against all Shadow. So if I, if we, fight back and don't look for a peaceful resolution, we will be playing into the hands of our enemies, giving them the actions they want so that they can damn us all once again.

The general population of Shadow only know us now through myth and legend and cautionary tale. Do not forget that those who faught against us in the original Grigori war were few. So most of our brothers and sisters only know what they were told. Do we want to fall into that trap once more and be castigated for defending ourselves? Remember the saying "the enemy of our enemy is our friend" ......... the general population of Shadow and their leaders are not our enemy. Only a small handful are. Perhaps what we need is to unite with the Shadow more quickly, so that we can gain more help and defence and show them just who the real enemy are?

It is possible that I am the only person on this forum now who feels this way. It is possible that you all want a war and to fight against those who mock us, attack us, want to see us in Exile yet again. But remember that if that fight spread further than those who originally stood against us, we would be killing our brothers..... we would end up being no better than those who now oppose us.

There is also the saying that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Do we just think of our own needs and justice, or do we think of the 200 Grigori, the other Shadow, the humans, the children and so find a lasting peace that makes the pain and sacrifice worth while?

Perhaps I am just too old and drowning in my own memories.


By Ysolde Mar 22 2008 -


I do not think that forgiveness can be offered to those who do not want it and do not think they have done anything which needs forgiveness.
As such, you are being too hard on yourself as I see it. There is no way you can keep reaching out to someone who is still bent on hurting you. That will only create more suffering, more to work through.

In my opinion and experience, the best thing one can do is keep safe, not retaliate or up the stakes, but stay away from the conflict and tend one's wounds as best one can. Be stronger, be as happy as possible.

As you all say, it is for us all to do our part. Therefore, it is impossible to influence the part of responsibility which is theirs, not yours. Reaching out, it seems, provokes only more violence at the moment, so stay back is my counsel here. These individuals need to work through it on their own, reach wisdom or not. And it is a tough fact that no one has the ultimate control of the rudder here.

Re-read the Lord of the Rings, and it's about the same thing, namely : Look to your front. Pay attention to your own area of responsibility.
If you are always preoccupied with whatever your sideman is doing, and he is busying himself with what you are doing, no one is paying attention to what they should be doing, and all comes crashing down.
It is a matter of trust. Look to your front and try to do what you are supposed to do, as well as you possibly can. And maybe then there is hope that the tower will fall.

If there is such a thing as 'sin', the only sin I can think of is that of despairing. There is always hope.
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ARCHIVE: Forgiveness, How? Empty
PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Forgiveness, How?   ARCHIVE: Forgiveness, How? EmptySat Jun 02, 2012 9:48 am

I miss this user, Ysolde, and wish that she would come back. I greatly enjoyed her way of describing "the dance" of life, that has always stuck with me since then.

Working through my own stumbles on this issue, and finding that our past wisdom means a lot more to me today - and it meant a lot to me then! But when there's noise and confusion and finding out who you truly are and learning things about yourself that you never knew before, there are some real wise things that you forget or let go of along the way.

I've found a couple of times when reading old old posts that the questions (and answers) I've written about are more profound and astute than either that I could produce today. Wisdom in ignorance?

Forgiveness is a hard, hard thing. Some of it has to do wtih the need to protect oneself, I think. I can forgive someone more easily when I know that I am secure in myself and their acceptance or denial of me will not affect my security, my peace, than when I feel that for whatever reason another has some power over me. Nowadays that I've worked thorugh most of my long-held emotional issues, the primary emotions left are those "triggers" and those are the places where I find it hardest to heal or to forgive.

For me personally a huge trigger is abandonment. I can't forgive that. I don't know why. I should be relieved if someone comes back into my life once they have chosen to leave it. I shouldn't be threatened by another who threatens to leave me, because there are many who care for me, that would fill their shoes. But I feel threatened and enraged by abandonment to this day. I need help too. It's painful to feel insecure enough that you would give your power to someone else.
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