By Dreamsend Oct 25 2007 -For some of us, the beliefs we hold and experiences we've had are a part of another world, not directly connected to our "mundane" jobs, work, friends and family, and public persona. Thus, for example, the very need for secrecy on this site. For some of us, this is probably not the case.
In my case, I can say that those I speak to about "this side" of my life are people who I've met on that basis, and not co-workers or friends from childhood. I haven't really "come out" to my family, though I've asked them leading questions on this nature before (to try to figure out their history).
Have you revealed this aspect of yourself to many people who were not already known to be comfortable with these thoughts? If so, was the process long and arduous? Did they take it easily? If you have not revealed your nature to any significant persons in your life, would you like to?
I'm fine with these two parts of my life being separate for now, but seeing as how the future might prove very revealing, am trying to address my beliefs and identity now in public settings as opposed to when it's too late.
What do you think? Do you think there should be more openness in connection with the "normal" world, or that it is fine the way it is now?
By Ishtahar Oct 25 2007 -Undoubtedly I think that there SHOULD be more openness. I think there SHOULD be no need for secrecy. Unfortunately I am realist enough to appreciate that this is not actually possible.
I have been extraordinarily lucky in my life in that I have had no need to hide my spiritual side. All of my family, my friends, my work colleagues know that I am pagan, that I celebrate the festivals, that I consider myself to be otherkin. Some accept without question, some with a deal of amusement and scorn, some I think dont really accept at all but just put it down as a part of me that they dont think about.
Having said all of that I have not told them about my memories of the fall, I have not told them that I am Ishtahar. Only my husband and my brother know this.
Why have I not told them? Well for one thing I have not worked it all out in my own head yet. I do not have complete memories and I dont know why I am remembering now, what I have to do with those memories. To some extent I am protecting them from what might frlow from the knowledge I am aquiring.
For another thing it is all very.....fragile..? This part of me is stripping me to the bone. The experience of opening up to the memories and all that flows with them has made me very vulnerable. Frankly I dont think that I could cope with my family's disbelief or scorn. This is so important to me I dont want anyone spoiling it.
Lastly there is a part of me that is still not able to believe it myself and so I do not want any fuel put in that fire.
I dont know whether any of this makes sense or whether it strikes a chord with anyone but it has been interesting for me to explore and the latter part was only formed in its writing as I had never realised those things myself until now
By Dreamsend Oct 25 2007 -It makes complete sense. biggrin.gif
There is a great sense of vulnerability and of doubt in this sort of inner work. We have to comb the depths of our fears and dreams and sort out truth from fantasy... And when we've found truth, allow ourselves to accept that it is. A lot of times it may seem to fantastical, terrifying, or grandiose.
I've had a lot of trouble just trying to be open about being psychic; I can't even imagine how to start approaching the topic of otherkin. It's lovely to hear that you have that sort of openness in your life, I'm so pleased to hear that smile.gif
With my family, I don't think I could do that, they have too much reluctance to accept their own strange truths, I couldn't expect them to accept mine.
You're right, that there are a lot of things that "should" be but can't for whatever reason at this time. I am the sort of being who might try to force the issue, regardless of should or shouldn't laugh.gif
-- A
By Azaz'el Oct 25 2007 -I can't agree more - there should be openess in the world, there should be no need for secrecy or any reason to be afraid. However, as we can all see and tell, there is a very real need for secrecy. Humanity just isn't ready for us just yet. You may be wondering how I know this? Well, we ourselves, have trouble in accepting it all, so how can we expect the rest of humanity! biggrin.gif
I know all about the difficulties in trying to accept and understand what we are. I started my awakening many years ago, but it took me a long time to accept who I was. I have always know I wasn't Human, but had no idea what that meant.
Most of the people around me have no idea who and what I really am. My partner has no belief in it all, my family are not that spiritual, and only my sister and her husband know the full truth. The rest who have known are now dead.
However, my family do know and also accept that I am Pagan, that I, like Ishtahar, celebrate the traditional festivals. They also totally accept my work as healer, working within Reiki as well as other traditions. But if I was to mention the name Azazel i think they would either drop down dead or have me sectioned! Especially when most people associate the name Azazel with satan, which is far from the truth.
One day they will know, as I will either tell them or they will find out when the truth is made known about all Otherkin. Until then, I blend into the background and do the work that I have been called to do in secrecy. cool.gif
Az
By Lael Dec 4 2007 - There's this anecdote I tell when someone 'in the know' asks me how open I am about myself. My mother, who is a spiritually-oriented person willing to believe in just about anything under the condition that it doesn't happen within her home's perimeter, owns a book entitled "How to communicate with angels." Now, upon seeing said book, yours truly came dangerously close to snorting tea through her nose, and bit back a comment that seemed to have gained enough willpower of its own to almost make her say: That's easy. Stop yelling at the one you live with.
Obviously, I didn't actually say it.
Some people - not all - know I'm not 'like them'. They sense it. 99% of them will not actually say anything, but it's pretty obvious in their behavior. I trust my sixth sense when it comes to knowing whom I can safely tell about not just who I am, but of what I am, and I have yet to be wrong. That said, the need to do so doesn't manifest itself often. I am perfectly comfortable with things being as they are, in that most of the world remains blissfully unaware of what they're dealing with. It's not just easier on me - it's easier on them, first and foremost. Most people can't really wrap their minds around things such as 'otherkin' (and I use the term loosely here, as always). The preconceived notions they might have tend to get in the way of their benefiting from contact/relationship with me. That, and most don't care why something happens, why they feel in such and such way - all they care about is that it does happen, that it does indeed work (help, make them feel better, whatever they're after), and that's that.
Sure, sometimes it would be easier if the whole 'coming out' thing didn't come with a whole load of issues. Simply telling most of 'them' is a surefire way to get yourself labeled as crazy, and when you need to maintain an illusion of having a life, hold down a job and so on, that's not particularly wise. And, well, I was involved with someone for six years at one point; it evolved into a fairly serious relationship, except he wasn't the kind of person to ever so much as consider me to be anything, well, 'other'. It does get in the way when you want to be open, and you can't, for fear of being ridiculed by someone who supposedly loves you.
So, yes. I am what I am, and I do what I can. Or what I must. Nine times out of ten, it doesn't require subjecting myself to odd looks, name-calling or finger-pointing. ;-)
By Naamah-Ninmah-Chawat Dec 5 2007 -Many, even so called alternative people freak out when one speaks too openly. However I vaguely told my earthly father and he took it quite well, after a while thinking that I was mad. Better to be careful to begin with, then you will be more credible later on when they start to notice things on their own.
By Lael Dec 5 2007 -Hah, that's pretty heavy-handed. XD Although a friend of mine, who happens to be a counterpart/aspect/choose-your-definition of one angel of death, once yelled "hold your tongue because you have NO idea who'll be standing by your bedside when you die" into her father's face. I don't think he ever looked at her the same again... ;-)
Mostly I doubt it's necessary to tell at all, except in rare cases. And in any case, unless there's a real reason that you know will bring about benefits and not justs losses, it should be about what you do and not what you talk about. Anyone can talk or label themselves; doesn't take a non-human to do that.
By Ishtahar Dec 5 2007 -Yes, I can see why some of those things would have made the people to whom they wre told somewhat uncomfortable.
I have been incredibly lucky. I have managed to be open with most ofhte people in my life. My children have accepted it far more than my elders although I have often been criticised for 'forcing' my beliefs on them. If you met my daughter you would know that no one forces her to do anything she doesnt want to do.
With my son he is so enquiring and accepts things so easily that it is easy to be open with him. Then he says something so innocently in a place or to a person that it is sooooooooo not the right time place or person to do it to that I get all freaked out and wait for Social Services to knock on my door.
Such is the spice of life. In one way or another I suppose we all live on the edge of a knife. But, as Lael says we have to have SOME semblence of a 'normal' life and so have to hide our light under our bushel....at least for now.
It is nice, though, to be able to let it all out now and again
By Naamah-Ninmah-Chawat Dec 7 2007 -I will never label myself but accept who I am like I was adviced to recently. Better hold the tongue though and not be so damn naive. There are still hate out there, often from fear. You always learn something by making mistakes, it is what you do and not what you say Lael that is very true. Now it is time to contemplate and shut up for a while.....I would never want to put anyone else in trouble and this far it has given me alone enough losses, so time to draw back in the shadows for a while. Ripples on the water and butterfly wings.....
Regards
N
By Sentru Dec 7 2007 -Personally, I've always been pretty distant from society and never much cared what people thought of me one way or the other. It's difficult for me to divide myself into a 'day time' personality and a 'night time' personality, the end result being that I'm viewed by most people as a little "off". That's fine, as I've got other qualities that keep me from being thrown in a mental institution or attacked by "witch hunters".
Anyone - friend, acquaintance, co-worker, family member - who asks for my thoughts on a subject will get an honest reply. I'm not going to deny who I am to anyone, for any reason. It's not a matter of arrogance or self-confidence. It's a matter of being pathologically unable to hide, in word and especially in deed, the fact that I'm just wired differently from most people.
Now that does not mean that I go around broadcasting my views. I feel no need to deck myself out in "occult" accessories. I feel no need to "preach" to the people who I have to deal with day in and day out at work. I have a strong dislike for "occultists" who do this, just as I have an equally strong dislike for Christians, Muslims and others who suffer from the same need to force what they believe onto those who really don't care.
All of that said, I'm certainly not going to blab all of my 'secrets' to strangers. There's very few people who know (or care, for that matter) my personal specifics. Those few people are those whom I consider to be friends. Brothers and sisters, really. I could not conceive of being in a close relationship with someone and actually hiding aspects of my very essence. Any relationship in which I'd feel the need to hide parts of who I am is a relationship which I'd be better off without.
On the question of openness by society in relation to views it would consider "abnormal", that's a question with a very complicated answer. If for some reason someone here wants to listen to further ramblings from me, a total stranger, please check out my myspace here:
http://myspace.com/kalos321and click on the blog entry "YHVH oppresses my pagan sensibilities". Here I write (and ramble on) about why I think that the sort of "openmindedness" modern Western society has for "occult viewpoints" is actually a negative thing. This essay is by NO MEANS complete. There are many other reasons why I have the opinions I do on this matter, and could go on at great length about them, though I'll spare you for the moment.
What society needs is not the sort of empty-headed "openmindedness" which is born out of the total lack of centeredness most people have. The openmindedness most needed is that which is, instead, the product of a well-used and exercised mind.
By Ishtahar Dec 8 2007 -Good essay, very nicely written with many good points. Oops I am sounding like a teacher and I didnt mean to. It was good.
I have read many of the pseuso-occult books and met a number of people who have written them. With few exceptions I have been singularly unimpressed and the exceptions have always been people who are highly educated in other areas, such as History, Psychology etc.
There are a few 'leaders' in their chosen occult field out there who have written many books, have huge followings of devoted fawning idiots, who give lectures and go on tours in this country and abroad who are nothing more that well dressed monkeys whom I hold in the greatest contempt.
The troublt (trouble?) is that the serious student of any occult tradition realises very early on that the ritual, the fancy clothes and symbols, the jewellery and the pomp is all little more than froth and therefore uneccesary and in fact can tend to get in the way. They also realise very quickly that the more we learn the more we realise how little we know and how little, comparatively that we are even likely to know/ This is all a rather humbling experience and tends one towards quiet contemplation and serious study rather than doing lecture tours and writing books.
Also I would think that a book that tells you how little of the sum total of knowledge you are ever going to be able to assimilate, that in order to do even that requires a lifetime of hard work and that the all the decorations and proprs are really uneccesary would probably not sell very well biggrin.gif
Not that I am saying that all books on the occult are worthless or that all of the well known proponents of occult knowledge are charlatans but I think you need to trawl through a lot of dross to find the gold and that merely because someone is famous it does not mean they actually know anything worth knowing. It is conversely true that just because you have not heard of someone and they have not written books or appeared on TV does not mean that they are not a goldmine of true knowledge and worthy to be a teacher. The trick is in finding them and recognising them when you do.
I have been lucky in that respect and have come across many people working quietly in the background who have taught me so very very much
As a last point I would also say that once you have made connection to your own ideology and are confident enough to recognise truth then most of even the pseudo occult literature has SOMETHING to say.
By Sentru Dec 8 2007 -I agree 100% with the last post.
By Naamah-Ninmah-Chawat Dec 13 2007 -I won't go anywhere just taking a break and doing some work....Time to relocate soon. Love to all of you.
By Azaz'el Dec 13 2007 -Naamah, pleased to hear your not going anywhere and are just having a break. Do you know where you may relocate to? Good luck, we're all behind you sending you positive thoughts.
Az
By Naamah-Ninmah-Chawat Dec 13 2007 -I will relocate first to Finland and then to your country, your island is in my heart. Thank you Azazel it feels good to hear. smile.gif
By Azaz'el Dec 13 2007 -I'm sure these lands will welcome you Naamah. There is a restlessness in the flow of energy in these islands that seems to be pulling many Kin towards it - either for a visit or to 'live' for a while. I don't know why, other than the Great Cycle has played itself out in these lands many times over the millennia. Perhaps it's just time for us all to return to the ancient lands and remember.
May your journey be filled with the warmth and joy of the Sun, and the insight of the Moon.
Az
By Keziah Feb 18 2008 -The thing I will never understand is how almost every single person I've told believe it more than I do.
It took a LOT of courage to tell my mum one day that I communicated with angels. I just stood there silent, and made her guess for half an hour before I finally managed to just spit it out. The weird thing was, she told me I needed to have more faith in myself.
About a year later, I seized the perfect opportunity to add to the statement that I AM an angel...I saw and purchased Earth Angels by Doreen Virtue (this was amazing, because I didn't know how many others were out there like me yet, though I admit I do think the book is a little 'fluffy'). I showed it to her, and she seemed vaguelly interested, so without even thinking about telling her, I just blurted it out. It was one of those moments where there was a second of silence, my face wide eyed, hands covering my mouth...And then:
"That makes PERFECT sense! That explains so much, I've always known you were different, just couldn't pinpoint how..." to which I did a double-take and stood there in shock as she babbled on about my childhood and things of that nature.
It's not a subject we've ever talked about since. She saw my book on Otherkin when I ordered it, and made some comment that it was scary people thought they were dragons or fairies, and that was the first time I was really grateful for the connotations and baggage 'angel' carries, and that over 70% of people in America believe in them. I just nodded and took off to my room.
I know she remembers, because for this past Christmas she got me a sterling silver angel wing necklace. biggrin.gif
Other than her, I'm not too sure who all knows. Anyone on my mum's side is fair game since I told her, but it won't leave the family, I know that much. Most of my online friends know as well.
I used to, and still do have these dreams that people I don't want to know figure it out. Sometimes they accept me with open arms, othertimes they chase after me and try to kill me. xD
By Zurine Feb 19 2008 -I agree with is all too. So far, not including this community only about 4 or 5 people know about me.
My mom likes me to teach her about subjects like this. ;;>> She really looks up to me as an adivsor to her spiritual life. It's odd, because I'll ask her what sorts of things she believes in, and she's really open.
When I asked her if she thought that humans could harbor the incarnated souls of different beings. I was returned with a slow drawn out "Yeeaah." She really took time to think about it. She accepts it, but I'd never tell her about most of my experiances.
I just bought 'Earth Angels' By Doreen Virtue, and had to hide it in the couch cusions of my couch. My Father recently asked what my "Current obsession with angels was all about,". I let that conversation drop like a rock. He'd never accept me if I told him.
As for my friends, they know that I'm different. I'm 'too nice' to people I would rather stay away from. They also joke and call me a witch. It's not offensive in the least bit. I'm acctually sort of happy they DO call me a witch every now and then. It shows that they are concious of my difference and they are accepting of it. I was actually talking to one of my friends about a book where the kids in it had wings. And I made a comment like: "Well, it's not that hard to fold wings flat..." She looked at me a minute and said, "I don't want to know how you know this," and laughed.
Being able to accept yourself is hard, having to tell others is even more of a challenge in my opinion.
By Azaz'el Feb 27 2008 -QUOTE (Zurine @ Feb 19 2008, 03:28 PM)
"Being able to accept yourself is hard, having to tell others is even more of a challenge in my opinion."
You really have hit the nail on the head here. I know that for me it took quite some time to fully accept who and what I was, especially when looking into memories and research and the modern concept of our "history" tells you that you are evil and bad and something to be hated. It can be difficult for any of us to be true to ourselves when we feel we may need to apologise just for being us.
As for telling others, well, that opens another whole bad of problems.... beginning with disbelief and ending in mockery or fear.
Az
By Araqiel Feb 27 2008 -QUOTE (Azaz'el @ Feb 27 2008, 11:29 AM)
"QUOTE (Zurine @ Feb 19 2008, 03:28 PM)
Being able to accept yourself is hard, having to tell others is even more of a challenge in my opinion."
You really have hit the nail on the head here. I know that for me it took quite some time to fully accept who and what I was, especially when looking into memories and research and the modern concept of our "history" tells you that you are evil and bad and something to be hated. It can be difficult for any of us to be true to ourselves when we feel we may need to apologise just for being us.
As for telling others, well, that opens another whole bad of problems.... beginning with disbelief and ending in mockery or fear.
Az"
Add to this the fact of being a shaitan/satan or "angel/shadow of judgment" and the fact of having this aura that either makes other beings run away in fear or metaphorcial put slowly increases the drama per square inch of visible forum space up to a tenfold level before entering a online community.
By Ouza Apr 8 2009 -Hello beautiful,
I want to say something stupid like.... do you remember me? But that wouldn't be very appropriate for the occasion. I just wanted to reach out and touch you and to tell you that you are not alone! I've always been here through Az and Ish's love, just now coming to that realization. So by all the means of unconditional love, welcome home!
Love
Ouza
p.s. Sorry for being a day late and a dollar short!
By Fate Apr 15 2009 -QUOTE (Ishtahar @ Dec 8 2007, 01:28 AM)
"Not that I am saying that all books on the occult are worthless or that all of the well known proponents of occult knowledge are charlatans but I think you need to trawl through a lot of dross to find the gold and that merely because someone is famous it does not mean they actually know anything worth knowing."
As someone who just submitted her book proposal for one she's almost finished, now I'm worried. LOL. Seriously though, I believe you are so right. So many of the popular authors rehash their own (and usually not very worthwhile to begin with) information or they borrow from their publishing buddies. It's frustrating and makes my teeth grind. It's one reason I decided to write my own.
Regarding who knows what about me...My co-workers all know I am pagan, as do my friends. One of my step-brothers know (he's Wiccan), but my mother doesn't. She knows he is, and it's one of the situations where she thinks it's 'not surprising, but unfortunate' so I will probably never be able to tell her of my own pagan path. Since he's "technically not" her son, she "doesn't mind so much". No one else outside my long-time boyfriend and my daughter know, as far as my family is concerned.
Only one of my friends knows I relate as Otherkin, and she does as well, though to a lesser extent. For my entire life though, I've experienced that phenomenon others here have mentioned where humans knew they were different, although for me it's almost never resulted in a negative experience unless they were resentful of whatever it is I apparently emanate. As I mentioned in my intro, two lives back I wasn't human or Shadow, but I believe the winged creature I was walked among the Shadows as something of a helper or Gatekeeper. I've had friends that started scratching me behind the ears for no reason, then catch themselves as if they thought they were insane. My grandmother and mother both caught me as a child bathing my dog and later my cat, but not with water. They had this look: blink.gif To make matters worse, I'm photosensitive, and when photos are taken of me with a flash I don't have red-eye. I have green or yellow, which isn't supposed to be able to happen in humans, because we lack a tapetum lucidum. I tend to perch a lot, even in chairs, because it's the closest thing I can assume to the posture a four-legged being would have with the two legs I have now.
By Dreamsend Apr 15 2009 -QUOTE
"I've had friends that started scratching me behind the ears for no reason, then catch themselves as if they thought they were insane. My grandmother and mother both caught me as a child bathing my dog and later my cat, but not with water. They had this look: To make matters worse, I'm photosensitive, and when photos are taken of me with a flash I don't have red-eye. I have green or yellow, which isn't supposed to be able to happen in humans, because we lack a tapetum lucidum."
That's interesting! People around us can often be such great indicators... so I take it that you remind them of something like an animal or fuzzy four-legged thing. Pretty cool.... and that childhood story is just too funny ^^;;;;.... but do you still get feelings like that? Or have other sort of urges to do things of that not-too-twolegged nature?
-- Angela
By Fate Apr 15 2009 -Yes, and it's always a cat. A few people, usually before they thought about what they were saying, just blurted it out. Once it was a guy when I was working at Kinko's, because he said my eyes were "disconcerting" and looked just like cat eyes. I couldn't tell at first if he liked it or not. It makes me wonder now what he would have thought, had he realized I sense there should be wings back there too.
I still get four-legged urges, as you mention. I'm in my element right now, because I have a cat who either thinks she is human or that I'm not. I'm leaning toward the latter, because we tend to exhibit behavior whenever no one else is around that is more catlike in nature (butting heads, stretches, sniffing noses and fur, etc). It might simply be because she was the runt, and when I got her she didn't allow anyone to touch her. The first night she cried for her mother all night. The second night, she cried for me, until she figured out where bed was. Now, we're two peas...
By Ishtahar Apr 17 2009 -That's nice.... my cats arent cats either... or at least they don't seem to think they are. One of them seems to always want to be next to my face touching noses as you say, licking my face (which I can only tolerate for very short periods) rubbing her face against mine etc, and who follows me around the house. The other is just.... stupid but she follows me everywhere too... even running down the street after the car and she is very voal.
I have often had comments from neighbours that they have never seen a cat like her and she seems to call hello to them from the front wall when they arrive home, sometimes following them down the street.
When I get home from work she is always waiting (dangerously) in the road outside the car door, I never see where she comes from, and she follows me to the house shouting at me.
Cats eh? smile.gif
By Dreamsend Apr 19 2009 -laugh.gif I love that one of your cats is so very... social, Ish! That really makes me lol... My cat is also uber affectionate, though sometimes I will try to touch noses with her, or bump heads and she'll look at me like "crazy human! I wan tyou to rub my back with your *hand*!"
By Azaz'el Apr 19 2009 -Ah, cats........... where to start!!! I have four, the two eldes are brother and sister from the same litter, the other two are from different litters but born in the same household a few weeks apart so they grew up as brothers.
I always vowed that I would never become a steriotypical 'cat person', but it soon bacame apparent as I fell head over heels in love with cats, that it happened. I have to say that all four of the cats have such different personalities that it amazes me they cope living under the same roof.
The eldest tom is my 'special' cat....... he isn't a cat, he isn't human either, but something far more than either. He is always within a clos diatnce of me, he knows what I feel, coming when I am ill and offering me 'healing', to a snuggle when I am down or in tears, to playing with me when I am filled with laughter. As much as this will sound like some ordinary cats, its hard to explain other than he is different. It's the look in his eyes, the way he behaves, sits, walks etc etc.
It didn't take me long to realise that he is my 'familiar', a little guardian who offers me much as who did, on one occasion, actually save my life.
I have always believed that cats, like crows, are half in this world and half in the Otherworld... but this one cat is unique and so very special to me.
As a side point, it's amazing how many Shadow and Otherkin have an affinity with cats.
Az
*inserts cat emoticon if he can ever find one*
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