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 Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?

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valthasar

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:40 pm

Myth wrote:
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...but is it a battle between good and evil, or more along the lines of the yin yang?

Exactly! That is one of my major questions, which I fear I won't get an answer to any time soon. That is an excellent way to put it, Scratch. I'm quickly losing my perspective of polar opposites (which wasn't ever strong to begin with) but I still feel certain there is a pool of negative energy out there that people can tap into, sort of like the Yin inside the Yang (or is it the other way around... I can't ever get them straight!). It's much smaller than the Light, but very powerful and opposite. It doesn't create so much as it corrupts, and the Light contains so it can't grow out of proportion and corrupt everything - very similar to the Yin and Yang. At least, that's my working theory on good and evil at this point. Very Happy The people who tap into it are the ones we might deem as evil because their souls get corrupted by this darkness.

Well, I'm glad I made even a little bit of sense!

Myth

*raises hand*

Can I uhm, share something about the whole corruptness thing?

Probably about six years ago, I had a dream where my husband and I took our sons to church. (Yes, I know. Crazy, huh?)

And we got to wandering around and I found a hidden room. They were behind me but they saw what was in it. It was ritual related stuff that was being used to control and manipulate the people who were there. I told them we had better go before someone found us around that room because they probably wouldn't like it at all.

And your post made me remember that dream in a creepy kind of way. I'm not saying all religions are evil, but I think while some may appear to be all peaches and cream, they aren't necessarily what and how they represent themselves, if that makes sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:46 pm

Why would Lucifer be called the lightbringer or morning star if he was evil. Okay one might say that he had this name before he fell and it was only after the fall he became evil. But how can someone, anyone go from being that good to that bad in one fell swoop. Even in the scriptures it says that the fall was due to misplaced pride and since when does being proud make you evil. Examine what is actually said about him... before during and after the fall. Take away the flowery language, venom and outright prpaganda and just what evidence is there?

As for Michael... he was the leader of the angelic force. Consider what they actually did. They slaughtered the first born in Egypt (all of them innocents), they helped commit genocide... they generally slaughtered good and bad innocent and guilty alike with seemingly no qualms.

And that's leaving out anything that I remember which of course is not based on any evidence except my memories. I can't say a good word about him I'm sorry even though I apprecaiate that my feelings are not based on anything more rational than memories of what he did.

The mention of is name makes me angry. I hate him.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:31 pm

Ishtahar wrote:
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As for Michael... he was the leader of the angelic force. Consider what they actually did. They slaughtered the first born in Egypt (all of them innocents), they helped commit genocide... they generally slaughtered good and bad innocent and guilty alike with seemingly no qualms.


I agree. The angels are portrayed as committing violent and vicious acts on behalf of the Old Testament God in the Bible. I did a quick search on "violence in the bible" and came up with this short list: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/short.html . Not to mention Sodom and Gomorrah =(. That whole thing really sucked.

I think that to question authority is to find truth. Just because someone points to another and says "He has done many good things," doesn't mean that it should be overlooked when crimes of violence are revealed of that "good man." One person's, or a book's, word of trust is not something that I will substitute for my judgment of actions taken or not taken.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Sat May 01, 2010 12:00 am

On the name "Asherah," Scratch, that reminds me of research I've been doing into Isis, who was often portrayed winged. Her original name was more like "Aset." I did a search on wikipedia and found out that she has a long list of titles and attributes, including "Queen of Heaven." In reading this thread, I'm also reminded of connections between different images...: The snake - seen as sacred in many cultures. Seen as a symbol of life, truth, medicine. Seen as a representative of the gods sometimes. Like Mexico's Quetzalcoatl and the Naga of India. The snakes of the Caduceus. Then, the "traditional" association of Lucifer with the snake/serpent. Then the famous paintings of Micha'el "defeating" the dragon/serpent. What this says to me, is that all these different countries associate the snake with wisdom and life, and Lucifer has been associated, by someone or something, with the snake, and the archangels under God endeavor to "defeat" the snake.

Myth, there is overwhelming evidence, alright, but I don't think it's against Lucifer. I think it's against God. The Old Testament God kind of strikes me as an overbearing powerhungry dictator-like being, who will stop at nothing to stay "on top." I qualify Him as "Old Testament" God because the New Testament God is a bit different. He seems to be more "love and light and forgiveness and harmony" than the Old Testament God. It also strikes me as interesting as I read this thread that it's said that Lucifer acknowledged the ability of humans to ascend, and in the New Testament, it's said that the Christ does as well. ("All these things I have done, you can do also and more") Maybe the New Testament God was on the same page as Lucifer had been before the first war?
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Sat May 01, 2010 5:04 am

Dream'sEnd wrote:
On the name "Asherah," Scratch, that reminds me of research I've been doing into Isis, who was often portrayed winged. Her original name was more like "Aset." I did a search on wikipedia and found out that she has a long list of titles and attributes, including "Queen of Heaven."

Myth, there is overwhelming evidence, alright, but I don't think it's against Lucifer. I think it's against God. The Old Testament God kind of strikes me as an overbearing powerhungry dictator-like being, who will stop at nothing to stay "on top." I qualify Him as "Old Testament" God because the New Testament God is a bit different. He seems to be more "love and light and forgiveness and harmony" than the Old Testament God. It also strikes me as interesting as I read this thread that it's said that Lucifer acknowledged the ability of humans to ascend, and in the New Testament, it's said that the Christ does as well. ("All these things I have done, you can do also and more") Maybe the New Testament God was on the same page as Lucifer had been before the first war?

Queen of Heaven was a title shared by several female deities in various pantheons. Of course, Mary is known by the title, but as you pointed out, so was Isis. Aphrodite also shared this title, and all of these deities were sometimes portrayed with stars about their heads, as well as by the symbol of a dove. In certain versions of their civilizations' creations myths, they all came from the water.

Re: God of the Old Testament vs the New, the difference may be attributable to the persons writing the books. In the OT, you had primarily Hebrew scholars that were trying to impress on their people the importance of keeping the covenant, no matter what methods they had to resort to in order to achieve the desired means. Consequently, like the stained glass windows of medieval European cathedrals, you instruct the ignorant by impressing upon them how important God is, and how you'll go straight to Hell if you don't do what he says. In contrast, the NT God was written about by different sects, each with an agenda all its own. Still, all Christian sects were facing stiff competition from the cult of Isis, Mithraism, and Zoroastrianism. New means to the end were devised, and early Christians borrowed from the latter two belief systems to make their new God/new covenant (Jesus) a more benign being.

Historically speaking, Lucifer was a mistranslation of the word meaning "bringer of light" or "light bringer". Since Latin verbs and subjects can be flipped around, and this was a vulgate issue, both apply for our purposes these days. Morning Star was the reference to the planet Venus, not a being, although this changed. Interestingly, in some Gnostic texts, Jesus is also called the Light Bringer or Morning Star. When things really got strange, Lucifer ended up going to Hell (which is named after the Norse deity, Hel).

I'm not saying there wasn't a being that did lead an uprising, but I don't think his name was Lucifer. This is especially true, if you look at the root words in each of the names of the other Fallen we see here, and in literature.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Sat May 01, 2010 6:04 am

So what was his real name?

....is what I want to know. What do you all think? Was that his real name? Or not? If not, what was it? Was it another name? Like Samma'el? (I thought Sammael is a different being but I'm confusing myself now so)
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Sat May 01, 2010 7:30 pm

I wish I could promise more help on this one, but I don't relate as one of the Fallen, and have no memories of them. I come from the Pre Islamic sphere, identifying as a djinn. I can ask though, and see if an answer is forthcoming. I know, that might sound odd even for around here, but that's how it often works. If it's not time to have the intel, I have to wait like everyone else.

I think it would make more sense though, for his name to be something that ends in -ael or -iel.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Sat May 01, 2010 8:11 pm

I could have sworn I responded to this post earlier but... here goes again...

I'm fairly certain that Sama'el is an entirely different being than Lucifer, but he is associated with him as one of his Fallen. Sama'el is considered one of his chief's, but there is a dual nature to him because some texts do not represent him as Fallen.

Lucifer has many names and is often confused with Satan. Whether he is "the" Satan or not, is unclear. Other names for Satan have been Abaddon, Bezelbubb, Belial, and our very own Azaz'el who is credited as the little red goat devil with the horns and hooves... poor Az. That is supposedly related to his first banishment where they killed a goat and opened a land portal, then threw him off a "cliff" to try and get rid of him. It didn't work, but the message was received - just not in the way it was intended. There is another name I ran across recently. The name Mastema. This is what Wiki had to say about Mastema:

Quote :
According to the book of Jubilees, Mastema "Hostility" is the chief of the demons engendered by the fallen Watchers/Angels with women, perhaps one of those same demons.

His actions and name indicate he is Satan, the 'Adversary', but much more the Satan who appears in the book of Job with a function to fulfill under God than the Satan of later tradition who is the uttermost enemy of God. Beliar, mentioned twice in Jubilees, is likely to be identical with Mastema in this work.

When God is ready to destroy all these demons after the flood and Noah prays that his descendants be released from their attacks, Mastema intervenes, beseeching God to allow him to retain and control one tenth of these demons in order to exercise his authority because they are "intended to corrupt and lead astray before my judgement because the evil of the sons of men is great". So Mastema is the tester of humans with God's permission.

Mastema sends a plague of birds onto the land in the days of Terah.

Later, Mastema counsels God to test Abraham (Jubilees 17:15-16) just as Satan in the book of Job wants permission to test Job. As Abraham prepares to sacrifice his son Isaac, Mastema stands in God's presence. On his deathbed Isaac promises that the spirits of Mastema will have no power to turn Jacob or his descendants away from Yahweh.

The strange account in Exodus 4.24 where Yahweh meets Moses by the way and tries to kill him is retold in a way that attributes the attack to Mastema instead (Jubilees 48:1-3). It is claimed that Mastema aided the Egyptian priests that opposed Moses. Mastema is also said to have been chained while the Israelites left Egypt but then let go to encourage the Egyptians to chase after the Israelites and so come to their doom in the Red Sea.

On the other hand, the deaths of the firstborn of the Egyptians are attributed to "all the powers of Mastema".

I think the first sentence is interesting, as it is relevant to this forum, but I'm not quite sure how or what it means. Is it saying that Mastema is Nephilim?

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Sun May 02, 2010 10:47 pm

Whilst I am really enjoying all the views and comments in this thread, I think it's important to stand up and remind everyone of one small point. Much of the information that currently exists regarding Lucifer is based upon the Christian interpretation, which as we know has been heavily edited and changed over the past couple of millennia. So whilst there isn't much else out there to go on, it should still be remembered that, in my opinion, history ..... including its interpretation, is written by the victors.

I and Ish began this whole thing to try and not only link in with our friends and relatives and allies who Fell with us, but also to get the message across that what was/is known about us in this day and age is virtually completely wrong. When doing any research it's hard to find something that doesn't link Lucifer with Satan, with Samma'el, and with myself. As you'll be aware, I'm not Lucifer, and neither is Samma'el. Satan was a title, not a being. Lucifer was a nickname, as was Morning Star, as is Semyaza. Some are remembered for their acts and deeds, some by their true names, some by the names that summed up who or what they were. Lucifer was light, he was bright, he loved the Earth and was given the name Morning Star as he was the brightest of us after the Source itself. He was pushed, he Fell, he was cast out by his brothers in the same way I and the other Grigori were.

There is no way that I can prove or give evidence of this to anyone, in the same way that I can prove that I am Azaz'el. Whilst for some it will be so hard to consider him as anything other than evil, he is only as evil as I was. He loved Humanity, but as equals, not as superior beings or lesser beings. We have all committed acts that others don't approve of, but in the end it is for the Source to judge. In the same way that I really do believe that all we have all faced and gone through is part of a plan, a way to get us all to learn and ascend.

As for the name endings of 'el .......... That was a Shadow name, after the Elohim, as we were the children of the Gods. Those whose name doesn't end in 'el is usually a nickname, a representation of what they do or who they were.

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Mon May 03, 2010 12:07 am

Dream'sEnd wrote:
So what was his real name?

That seems to be the question of late, and you're not the only one to ask it. I don't know, and need to. I wonder if perhaps it was taken, removed; I've certainly forgotten it. That thought is making me cry, but when I look for a name beyond titles and labels, it's like a headstone which has been scoured blank. There's space where a name was, but it doesn't seem to be there anymore. I have a faint inkling that Scratch is some bastardized echo of it, but don't know if there's anything to that.

My given name is a female derivative of "Christian." I always hated it, because hardly anyone can pronounce it right, so people were always giving me nicknames. I was raised in a religious (but not spiritual) family, and we went to a progressive church where the devil wasn't even spoken of. Still, imagine being a little girl, about 9 or so, who took a shower one day and was told by a voice in her head to turn the cold water off, because, "it will be so much hotter than that where you're going." It said I would go to hell, and when I asked why, it said "to rule there," because I was the Devil. I don't know where it came from, and would very much like to stomp it if I ever come across the owner of that voice, but that was the first (and among the most dismissible, though it bothered me) of many hints I've received.

I'm done with this secrecy. I'm tired of being scared and ashamed of myself, because everyone says who I seem to have been is supposed to be the root of all evil. I'm not a bad person. I know this, even though a lot of lying bull has tried to make me think I am. I want to know who I am, just like the rest of you: I want to know the truth. It still terrifies me, but I don't want to keep it inside anymore. So, all this unprovable spiritual activity has been leading me, no matter how I argued, deliberated, or fought it, to one conclusion: whoever we may be talking about here, that was me. Not evil, not good, not understood or provable, but not nearly as afraid now.

If anyone wants to argue, please... it would be such a relief to be proven wrong!
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Mon May 03, 2010 9:56 pm

Azaz'el wrote:
Whilst I am really enjoying all the views and comments in this thread, I think it's important to stand up and remind everyone of one small point. Much of the information that currently exists regarding Lucifer is based upon the Christian interpretation, which as we know has been heavily edited and changed over the past couple of millennia. So whilst there isn't much else out there to go on, it should still be remembered that, in my opinion, history ..... including its interpretation, is written by the victors.

Az
I know you said everyone, but I'm writing this anyway. Umm, not sure if I came across as saying the historical way is the only interpretation or not, but I don't think it is. I guess I am just used to history people, and we basically go on the idea that the victor writes the histories, so I don't bother saying it. I did say it's "historically", but maybe not everyone realizes that doesn't mean it's necessarily true. If I can find pre Christian sources, I try to include those, because I hold no allegiance to the Christian mindset. It's alien to me, always has been, especially since I wasn't raised in that atmosphere. So yes. LOL


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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Mon May 03, 2010 10:10 pm

Scratch, that must have been very scary for you. Personally, I think I'd have freaked out so badly they'd probably have had to institutionalize me. Either that, or I'd have withdrawn even more than I did as a kid. I was a very scared and withdrawn kid as it was... I've always wondered why. Now I think I was so bombarded with emotions and no way/knowledge of how to shield myself that I internalized everything and withdrew. I was a mess. I also remember myself as very distant... almost ADD and spacey. Like I was living in a dream or nightmare - but I had a really good childhood and loving parents. It wasn't until I was much older that I realized how screwed up they were - when I was a kid they hid it well, which actually might have been part of the problem. It's taken me this long just to feel normal. I'm sad to see my son going down the same path... so scared of everything, so sensitive. But as I'm just figuring things out myself I don't really know how to help him yet. We do the best we can but... I know it's not enough. My daughter is also very sensitive. She absorbs the emotions of people around her, and as she's a teenager, there's a lot of angst to go around! But she doesn't internalize it like my son and I do. She's more like her dad in that way... she wears her emotions on her sleeve, so to speak. I worry about her less because of this trait, but she's still very sensitive and easily led.

Az, is there really a being by the name of Satan, or is this a representation of all who were considered by men as evil? Where did the idea of beings out to tempt humanity "over to the dark side" come from?

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Mon May 03, 2010 11:07 pm

I have no idea if there is a being in existence now with the name of Satan. It used to be a title, nothing more, in the same way that history is filled with famous names in mythology and legend that were titles and represented tasks or the work that people did.

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Tue May 04, 2010 4:36 am

That makes so much sense, considering that there seem to be so many! So the title of "Satan" would mean what?

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Tue May 04, 2010 9:46 am

Myth, you could have described my life there. I always had a guilty fear in the back of my head that my sister has been medicated her whole life so I could be the "normal" one. I never told anyone about that voice until now, which is part of the reason it stuck with me so. I internalized everything too, but started to figure out how bad that is about two years ago. Now, I'm figuring out all the ways I do, and cutting them out.

I hope your kids come around, and you continue to as well. I'm sure you'll help each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Tue May 04, 2010 4:16 pm

So what are the overall impressions of Satanael? Or Satariel, Sataniel or Satan'el? I'm asking, because some of these are from the book of Enoch, while others have Babylonian origins.

Re: Satan, and again this Hebrew in origin, a "ha-satan" was an angel submitted to God who pointed out the wrong doings of humans, but not an individual being. This job, if you like to think of it that way, was when you got that whole God giving "ha-satan" the chance to tempt Job. Bad pun, I know.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Tue May 04, 2010 6:44 pm

Hadn't come across that one before, but it makes a lot more sense to me than some all-powerfully-evil individual being tolerated as he tempts humanity for his own interests.

I think that "title" is a blanket term, and there never was an actual being called Satan. I've heard of an Arabic term, Shaitan, which is supposed to be where the name was derived, and the personage presented always struck me as an odd cobbling-together of Pan, djinn, satyrs, and a handy excuse. Even if there are angels who point out wrongdoings and tempt, "the devil made me do it" is and always has been a lie.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Tue May 04, 2010 8:39 pm

Yes well, like Pan and the satyrs, we djinn have gotten a bad wrap. In the pre-Islamic lore, djinns could be good or bad, not the evil beings that they are known as being today. I've been working on my website some, the link being below, if you want to check out a few items there.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed May 05, 2010 7:16 am

Very interesting, and explaining a lot I hadn't heard before. Thanks for suggesting your site. Djinn have always had a pull for me, but I never really looked into them. They sound quite a bit like angels, don't they?

I feel very, very close ties to the Arab Peninsula, but in terms of the Fertile Crescent. Do you happen to know what made it into a desert?
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed May 05, 2010 12:16 pm

Lucifer had a name. He still has a name. it wasn't taken from him. I would imagine the reason that you draw a blank on the name is because you are not meant to know it but to find it.

The Morning Star is not and never was evil. He was a wonderful person, warm and caring. Of course he could be ruthless and harsh when he had to be... they all did. he did things that he wasn't proud of but i know one thing... refusing to turn his back on humanity wsn't one of them.

He didn't fall because he was proud, far from it. He could be proud, of course he could... they all could. IMHO the Sanhedrin were the ones who were guilty of pride. They believed that their way was the only way and in time of war yes that was how it should be... but we weren't at war any more and they wouldn't bend.

I suppose they were no more evil than we were... most of them but they were wrong. Morning Star was the first to tell them so. I do not accept that what happened to him was a fall at all. He was sent away because he was an embarassment... no that's not right exactly a thorn in their sides. He kept challenging them and I suppose that's where the pride thing came from. He was not proud he just stood up for what he believed in, what he knew was right.

I liked him. I never knew him because he was gone before I arrived but I heard stories, lots of stories good and bad. Sem knew him. He idolised him and he told me all about him. I suppose my view was coloured by that but all the people I trusted had the same view so I have absolutely no reason to doubt.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Wed May 05, 2010 4:41 pm

Scratch wrote:
Very interesting, and explaining a lot I hadn't heard before. Thanks for suggesting your site. Djinn have always had a pull for me, but I never really looked into them. They sound quite a bit like angels, don't they?

I feel very, very close ties to the Arab Peninsula, but in terms of the Fertile Crescent. Do you happen to know what made it into a desert?


Yes, I tend to think there are similarities because they are either the same type of being, and just the human perspectives have skewed the way they have been described to us today or they are a close kin. Yes, another bad pun. Az was kind enough to say the djinn could have a niche here on the forum, so I am going to condense some of the info I have on my site to place here.

The area that is now desert, as you probably know, was once where Mesopotamia was located (which included the Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, and Assyrian empires). Massive amounts of water from melted snow would come down from what is now Turkey, and this amount of water was augmented by annual rains, often causing floods. To combat this, an intricate irrigation system was developed to spread the water outward for farming and other purposes. Unfortunately, there were problems with this method as early as the period of the Sumerians, due to waterlogging of the soil and salination. After the Sassanian period ended, upkeep on the system (and in fact most infrastructure) literally trickled off, and was not picked back up again until a century and a half later-by which time it was too late). In the 20th century, various methods have been devised or considered for reestablishing this same type of irrigation system to the region, but wars and overall costs have thwarted each of these.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri May 07, 2010 5:04 pm

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He didn't fall because he was proud, far from it. He could be proud, of course he could... they all could. IMHO the Sanhedrin were the ones who were guilty of pride. They believed that their way was the only way and in time of war yes that was how it should be... but we weren't at war any more and they wouldn't bend.

Ish, what do you mean by "Fall"? There are many interpretations of this word and now I'm a little confused as to what is meant by it. Fall implies a descent. Many believe this descent was to Hell and Lucifer is supposedly the Prince of Hell. If there is no Hell, what does "Fall" mean? The 200 Fell in the last battle - they were crushed and all but destroyed. The stories say the same happened to Lucifer - he and his fellow angels (those who followed him, 1/3 of the host) were defeated by Michael and his hosts, were thrown (or fell) out of heaven down to earth (or into the hell dimension) and became demons. I know your (and Az's) beliefs about this, that there are no demons and no Hell. So what do you mean by Fall? Where did he go?

Also, who were the Sanhedrin to you? Wiki has this to say about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin
How long has this ruling body existed? What time frame are you referring to with regard to war? What war?

I do appreciate your unique view on the Morning Star, as this is one I have never heard before. I would like to believe that what you say is true. It's never sat well with me that he is the all powerful evil one he's made out to be, and I have never really understood why I felt this way. But expressing anything different at the time would have been akin to saying I was a Satan worshiper, so I never questioned except in my head. This thread has been very enlightening, although I'm not entirely sure what I believe (it's still hard at times to get aground the dogma that I was told to believe as a kid).

Concerning the Grigori's fall, I also never understood why there is supposedly to be a "Judgment Day" for the 200 when they make it clear the decision has already been made. Why prolong it... put it off to another time? What's to "judge" at this point? Would anything have changed, especially if the rebels had been chained and "reserved for judgment"? What sense does that make? Just food for thought. Smile

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Ousa

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri May 07, 2010 6:20 pm

You've just got to look up more about reincarnation! It exists and everything they say is true each new life we start is from scratch. Just every so often we're given an opportunity in a lifetime to touch ground but no guarantees for the next life or as I should say lives ahead. Every time someone puts a timetable on something they either fall short or overshoot it! Az was hoping that the portals would still be capable of being opened but sorry folks I took that choice away a long time ago. If they've come through they've come the long way around or developed some new tactic in the meantime!

This is why it is paramount for all of us to reach out and touch someone call it good Karma or whatever!

lifetimes can last up to 10's of thousands of year maybe even into the 100's of thousands! Our life cycle at that time could reach the Methuselah syndrome! If we in fact died outside of the earths influence we could live really long but if killed pr destroyed here on earth we came under her rules and regulations.

So guess what we may or may not have this opportunity at least in this lifetime where all can be awakened to what it's really all about and come hopefully to a comfortable solution so that if where or when it occurs that we be prepared!

I'm sorry for being so militaristically minded but I'm a soldier I have always been a soldier in this life and in all the others! please forgive me, I hope that you grasp on to what I'm trying to express here it's very important that Az and Ish succeed on this one!

Ouza


"Walk the Walk and Talk the Talk on this one as you see fit!"

The Sanhedrin were the ruling council of the times
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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Fri May 07, 2010 11:18 pm

Well, you and I must differ on the belief of the portals Ouza, as I do believe thay are opening and can be opened.

As for the Fall.... I suppose it's a generic word that is used to describe the stripping of any Shadow of their rank, their abilities, their access to the Source, their knowledge, their memories and ... in the case of some of us .... opening a Gateway and banishing us to a realm of existence beyind the physical or the realms that are known to us or inhabited by other beings.

The reason why it is believed that there would be a judgement day for the Grigori is that the banishing that took place wasn't forever, it wasn't an act that was meant to last untilt he end of time and existence. In many ways it was a way of getting rid us all for a long enough period of time until those remaining had regained power and control and perhaps even re-stablished their link to the Source. But the Wards placed aginst us deteriorate and our souls have been released and we return. They did expect that by now we would be judged and no doubt re-integrated into the Cauldron of the Universe to be obliterated and remade!!

Az

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PostSubject: Re: Lucifer - any memories or knowledge?   Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:41 am

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