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PostSubject: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyFri Sep 17, 2010 11:10 am

By Eshtar Oct 4 2009 -

I was wondering well lol after watching a horror movie called Long Time dead. The Old name Dijinn was brought up. After a group of London Teenagers accidently summon a murderious Dijjin. The Dijiin now seeks to kill everyone who summoned it. Anyway it brought up the old lore of Dijiin being made of Fire ect. Now Angels (shadow) are made of the same. Are Dijiin and Angels the same beings? I know the Dijiin are well umm not so nice. But ya I was wondering if they were the same. Even though Dijiin are the "fallen" ones.


By Azaz'el Oct 4 2009 -

Some spiritual traditon has it that when the Races were created there were only 3 intelligent races in the universe - angels, humans, and Djinn. But this becomes more complicated when looking at the other concepts of the Djinn ..... that they are made from smokeless fire (like the Shadow/Angels), and that they were also known as Iblis.... a name given to fallen ones (and even I have been given that name in some traditions).

I have never met or come across a Djinn. I am aware of their reputation but have never even considered that the name could be just another name for the Fallen. Does anyone else have any other memory or experience of this?

Az


By Seraphyna Oct 4 2009 -

I just have the clarification/belief that not all angels were created from fire or whatever...to say so implies that angels (and djinn for that matter) only came into existance after the elements...which is simply untrue. Angels like the seraphim may have been made from fiery energy or something along those lines, but to say all angels were is simply wrong.


By Scratch Oct 4 2009 -

I always thought of that fire as referring to concentrated energy, rather than the product of combustion. In that sense, everything is made of it to a certain extent, but perhaps the distinction is material, as humans are "made of dust."

What confused me was coming into existence before elements. That sounds like building before blocks, but also makes me puzzle over how some of us could have. Hadn't thought about it before.

I think there could be a connection between djinn and fallen. I don't know that much about djinn, but could see some of the earthbound being resentful and messing with people like that.


By Seraphyna Oct 6 2009 -

There was energy before there was matter. Afterall, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only change. Most angels are energetic, thus why is it hard to believe that angels predate any physical matter such as the elements?


By Azaz'el Oct 6 2009 -

I should clarify the matter about Shadow/Angels being made from fire........ it's not the element fire but the concentrated energy that is Soul Fire.... the only word that exists in our language that comes close to describing it. I suppose we all need to clarify that when we talk about creation, the words aren't always necessarily relating to physical matter, especially when refering to the Races being made of Fire, Water, Earth and Air.

All Shadow were made of Fire .... perhaps they just display different qualities and energies, but it is this Fire of Creation that makes our Soul. Djinn could be later Shadow that fell, or were pushed, but they 'feel' to me more like Earth based spirits (linked more to this planet) than Universal beings.

Az
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 2:24 am

I know this is an old thread, but I would like to revive it for a short time, if possible.

Az, your sense is that djinn are non Universal, but what is your feeling about the djinn and time? In the thread where I was responding to Dreams about Zoroastrianism, there was some information about how the conceptualization of time was related to the appearance of necessary darkness, the bad, the Satan, and djinn in human religion.

Anyone can answer with their ideas of course, just wondering about Az's take, since he had the response to what Scratch wrote. For that matter, have you given this more thought, Scratch?
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 5:11 am

First off, I want to say belatedly how cool it is to see you again, Veil! I've been dealing with a lot of good but intense personal stuff lately, and switched to lurk mode for a bit.

I had a vision on Samhuinn, while visiting Dream's in Hawaii, that probably relates back to this. The detailed version is in a thread which I think was titled "Samhuinn," but the short version is that I was fed a tremendous amount of energy by local elementals, then my angelic soul shot out of my chest and flew straight up like a rocket. It (genderless, as far as I could tell) seemed to be made of orange-red fire, and held a sword of the same color flame. After reaching the upper stratosphere, it spun in a circle, creating a disk of flames out of the sword, which proceeded to cover the globe, as my angel-self fed it that collected energy. After it flew back down into me and I opened my eyes, I was so exhausted I had difficulty sitting up at first, until the elementals gave me some more energy to see me home okay. I was pretty wiped the next day, too, even though the guy with us at the time said so much energy was raised, he couldn't handle it.

So, this was interesting to read again, as I'd completely forgotten this topic, but what I saw seems to have lined up perfectly with the idea we're made of fire. Az described this as concentrated energy, which makes sense with how I felt pumped to critical mass. It was also interesting how the next day, at a farmer's market, a glassblower told me to pick one of the pendants he sold, for free. Several of them were twists of orange-red glass, looking uncannily like the fire I saw. I wear it all the time now. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 7:10 am

i've said it before, and i'll say it again, the more i hear about your visit to Hawai'i, Scratch, the more i feel compelled to say "screw the cost" and just go Razz

as far as Djinn and the perception of Time, though, i would have to use something i have seen before to describe my take. i think it's more of a concept similar to how Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen exists. not necessarily proceeding through the timeline, as we in mortal bodies do, but rather existing in all moments along their own lifetimes at once.

does that make sense?

Raz
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 8:00 am

That makes a lot of sense, Raz.

I stumbled across a practice called "Quantum Jumping" recently, which might have something to do with that. A man named Burt Goldman sells audio courses for it, saying there are infinite parallel universes, where infinite variations of our selves exist, and through meditation and visualization we can access them and their life experiences. Through freebies, I got the basics of his technique, and tried it.

I'm still somewhat skeptical on the concept of parallel dimensions, but think it might have something to do with what I've seen referred to (and think of) as the Eternal Now. More and more, I get the feeling time is non-dimensional, that it is not so much linear as infinite series of moments. Please don't ask me to reconcile aging or anything like that with this... it's little more than a feeling, but Dr. Manhattan was a major trigger for it with me.

As for that visit, I got a surprise windfall, and literally could not think of anything else to spend it on. The Island was calling me, and I don't argue (much) with compulsions that strong. I won't recommend putting yourself in debt, but if you can get the money together, why not? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 4:34 pm

indeed, i have a fair cushion saved up, but a plane ticket would take a sizeable chunk out of that. i just kinda hope that Dream/Ashtarte still lives there ^^;;

as far as aging goes, i would explain that as it is; since we exist in a linear timeline, we're bound by its rules, namely exposure to constant radiation which causes genetic damage and aging. it may not seem it, but even things like uranium are constantly present in the ground, and sunlight has innumerable different kinds of radiation.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 9:04 pm

Scratch wrote:
First off, I want to say belatedly how cool it is to see you again, Veil! I've been dealing with a lot of good but intense personal stuff lately, and switched to lurk mode for a bit.

I'm still somewhat skeptical on the concept of parallel dimensions, but think it might have something to do with what I've seen referred to (and think of) as the Eternal Now. More and more, I get the feeling time is non-dimensional, that it is not so much linear as infinite series of moments. Please don't ask me to reconcile aging or anything like that with this... it's little more than a feeling, but Dr. Manhattan was a major trigger for it with me.

Razi'el wrote:
as far as Djinn and the perception of Time, though, i would have to use something i have seen before to describe my take. i think it's more of a concept similar to how Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen exists. not necessarily proceeding through the timeline, as we in mortal bodies do, but rather existing in all moments along their own lifetimes at once.

does that make sense?

Thanks Scratch. It's nice to be back, and to see you have emerged.

I would say space is made up of infinite dimensions, but not time. I don't see time as a linear thing at all, and the 'Now' concept is one with which I am familiar. I think the concept of linear time is just a coping mechanism for humans, because the very things that make us (atoms) are constantly rearranging themselves, so fast and in ways we'll never be able to keep up with. due to our own limited senses. I think is also helps explain the aging, since one minute I might look older than I will in an hour, because of the way the atoms move.

Raz, based on the concept above, it would seem like djinn dart in and out with their own chronology for handling things. i.e. it feels like they are 'existing in all moments along their own lifetimes at once'. I'm not sure that as djinn, we have a timeline. We do have moments (and therefore time), but again, not the linear construct of a timeline (since we don't typically have a physical form that would require time as it's used by humans). Hoping that makes sense. lol
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 9:18 pm

"Time is the substance from which I am made. Time is a river which carries me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger that devours me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire that consumes me, but I am the fire."

Ouza

~ Perspective through Awareness ~
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptySun Jan 30, 2011 6:23 am

Wouldn't you know it, just as I began to really think about writing a book about djinn, Llewellyn has published one? Unfortunately, I can already tell that it's not exactly kind in its slant. If nothing else, however, maybe it will fill in some gaps in what my research has shown me, and there will be a way to counteract it in something of my own...


The Vengeful Djinn
Unveiling the Hidden Agenda of Genies

By: Rosemary Ellen Guiley, Philip J. Imbrogno
Specs: Trade Paperback | 9780738721712
English | 288 pages | 6 x 9 IN
Pub Date: March 2011
Price: $17.95

If you fear one thing in life, fear the djinn. This groundbreaking book presents the findings of Rosemary Ellen Guiley and Philip J. Imbrogno’s investigation into the powerful and mysterious interdimensional beings known as djinn or genies. It reveals what the djinn are, where they can be found—and their hidden agenda against the human race.

Working with material compiled from a variety of sources—including their own case files, Middle Eastern lore, the Qur’an, teachings of Islamic scholars, and the latest theories in quantum physics—the authors explore the relationship between the djinn, demons, fairies, shadow people, and extraterrestrials. They discuss the military’s interest in these clandestine beings, offer eyewitness accounts of modern human encounters with the djinn, and reveal the location of interdimensional entry points in North America.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 12:44 am

Suspect

Sounds a bit like they're on about some real things.... only they took a totally negative route with it. Who knows what the book actually says... though I'm *assuming* it's "unseen forces are having an effect on the earth!!! hide your kids!!" Which, in case I'm not conveying my sardonic tone clearly enough, always basically annoys the piss out of me. Perhaps this book will be part of the problem... who knows.

It does look interesting, though... maybe I'll pick it up.

It would probably still help though if when you wrote your book, that it be published... misinformation is the start of terrible things... which is the vibe I get from them.

Ashtart
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyFri Feb 04, 2011 1:08 am

Yes, I get the same impression from the description. An instance of their research potentially being sound, but then they get a case of the batshit crazies. I'm not saying djinn didn't/aren't doing bad things, but they possess(ed) free will. To think they all decided to do things, including those from which you'd have to hire your kids (lol), seems off to me. I will be picking up a copy. Will post a brief update with the results. If it is, as we suspect, then I might go ahead with my idea.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptySun Feb 13, 2011 3:50 am

I suggest you go ahead with your idea anyway... It's always good to have more than one source about something... And Llewelyn books... I dunno... I get a weird kind of crazy, fluffy, tin foil hat type vibe from some of them.. Although my dragon tarot set is from them and it works really well. So I dunno. But yes, you should continue with your idea, Veil.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyMon Feb 14, 2011 3:15 am

Yes, some of their older stuff is nice, but in recent years they have kind of jumped the shark. I think they felt they were losing their market, because they kept printing 101 material, but they went the wrong direction.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyThu Jul 14, 2011 1:30 pm

Hello all,
I have been away for a while and I apologize for my absense!

I'd just like to put my own input in here. As far as Djinn go, I know them as Spirits I have with me.
I have 3 - One Marid/Celestial hybrid Djinn, one ifrit Djinn, and one Egyptian Regression Djinn.

What I know of them, they are Spirits who must be respected. They are strong, they are protectors, and they are wish-granting Spirits. However, I ask mine only of protection because Ï require nothing from them in the form of wish-granting, nor do I trust them entirely to follow out exactly what I ask of them - they are known to manipulate and twist your words. If there is a loophole in your request, they will find it and carry out your wish the way THEY see fit.

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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyThu Jul 14, 2011 1:35 pm

Just to add, I have not personally had any problems with them. I give them due respect, and they are NOT "evil" at all. However, I am rehoming them soon except for my Ifrit Djinn. My spiritual path does not allow for me to take enough care of them and pay them attention, so I would prefer to pass them to someone else.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyFri Jul 15, 2011 7:41 pm

I think you're right, Muse, there are a lot of tricky things out there. In fact magic as a whole is like that. Be careful what you wish for. The devil is in the details. Those sayings are about exactly this... you have to be very careful about your precise phrasing in your requests.

I have to say, that I really don't blame them Smile
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptySat Dec 31, 2011 3:09 am

Muse wrote:


I'd just like to put my own input in here. As far as Djinn go, I know them as Spirits I have with me.
I have 3 - One Marid/Celestial hybrid Djinn, one ifrit Djinn, and one Egyptian Regression Djinn.

What I know of them, they are Spirits who must be respected. They are strong, they are protectors, and they are wish-granting Spirits. H

If there is a loophole in your request, they will find it and carry out your wish the way THEY see fit.


Did you meet with success in rehoming the djinn that were with you? I've never heard of it being done, but it's not like I have spoken to a lot of people that associate with them either, so I am very curious.

Your mention of their being protectors reminds me of a post that I made on a broader Otherkin board, where I had mentioned relating to the djinn and gargoyle idea. Someone made a joke about how they assumed I didn't mean a water spout kin (which is actually a funny concept), but I did go on to explain how the origins of gargoyles on churches came from a legend in France of a dragon-like creature (bat-like wings, long neck, breather of fire) that was supposedly killed by St. Romanus. After slaying the creature, the Church attempted to burn its whole body, but the neck and head wouldn't burn-so they attached them to the front of the church instead to act as a protector against evil spirits.

Regarding carrying out requests as they see fit, the few djinn kin persons I've spoken to do tend to be very literal when it comes to instructions, and it can grate on other people's nerves. I think this might be a carry-over trait.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyTue Jan 10, 2012 9:07 pm

A quick update about the book (http://www.djinnuniverse.com/) referenced earlier in the thread. I did begin reading it, and will finish it, but apparently the second author has been proven to have lied about his education and his military background. The man has written innumerable books before this one, and gone on radio/tv programs, but he found his own loophole by concocting a background history so easily disproved, that he assumed no one would even try. His co-author has officially severed their connection (after not checking into his credentials herself presumably), and Imbrogno has stated he is leaving the paranormal world alone. I'm wondering how he plans to do that. It's not exactly a snap the fingers sort of thing.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyWed Apr 18, 2012 11:43 pm

Late post, very late... but i would like to say that the djinn are not inherently evil. Of the little i remember, i know that. I know because i blurted them. Not physically as i did Cain, but in a similar way. Hopefully that helps some memories.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyThu Apr 19, 2012 1:46 pm

Remember that Intent/Choice had and still does have a lot to do with their own individual thoughts words and deeds. Just as it is today with us all!

Ouza Like a Star @ heaven
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyThu Apr 19, 2012 2:24 pm

Veil wrote:
A quick update about the book (http://www.djinnuniverse.com/) referenced earlier in the thread. I did begin reading it, and will finish it, but apparently the second author has been proven to have lied about his education and his military background. The man has written innumerable books before this one, and gone on radio/tv programs, but he found his own loophole by concocting a background history so easily disproved, that he assumed no one would even try. His co-author has officially severed their connection (after not checking into his credentials herself presumably), and Imbrogno has stated he is leaving the paranormal world alone. I'm wondering how he plans to do that. It's not exactly a snap the fingers sort of thing.

Lying about his past doesn't necessarily invalidate his work. Maybe he believed in what he was saying so much he just wanted to give it more weight.
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptySat May 05, 2012 12:08 pm

What do you mean by "blurted," Lilith? Shocked Question Question
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PostSubject: Re: ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels   ARCHIVE: Dijinn and Angels EmptyWed May 30, 2012 5:13 pm

Ishtahar wrote:
Lying about his past doesn't necessarily invalidate his work. Maybe he believed in what he was saying so much he just wanted to give it more weight.

Nope, in this instance, he lied for the money. Once they found out he lied, he admitted it, and then basically vanished from the publishing world and radio shows. Meh.

Lilith, I'm also wondering what you mean by blurted? I have memories of you, maybe more than I should, but it all has to do with the pantheon or beings I interact with as beings/family.
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