ARCHIVE: Vampire Origins

By Dreamsend Sep 15 2008 -

Do the Vampires have an ancestor(s)? An originator from whom they descended? I know that some say they are descended from the Fallen. Any others?

On a similar though separate topic, does anyone know about Lilith (the first 'wife of Adam')? What was she and where did she go? I feel drawn to her.

-- Angela


By Seraphyna Sep 15 2008 -

Well the jury's out on the existance of classical, ageless, and inheritor vampires...those vampire types reminiscent of the fictional vampire. However, a vampire is just someone with an energy deficiency who need to take in external energy in some form in order to maintain their physical health. Many incarnate energy beings in general are vampiric in nature due to the binds and wards that keep us bound in physical form. They drain the excess energy from us so we don't destroy our physical forms; however, in some cases, they drain so much that the incarnate being has to take in external energy. I've met many an incarnated angel, fallen or otherwise, where this is the case.

If you're talking about the mythical vampire..you know the one who goes around turning people, drinking their blood, can only come out at night, and sleeps in a coffin, those myths date back to early folklore in europe.


By Azaz'el Sep 15 2008 -

There has been a great deal of discussion amongst many Kin members on many different sites regarding the origin of Vampyres. Some feel strongly that all the many and various types of Kin have descended from the Fallen, although none seem clear on their views as to whether they are the incarnated souls of the Nephilim, or just someone the released souls of the Fallen Grigori. Others believe that Kin and Vampyres are the children of Ishtahar.

As one of the Fallen Grigori I am not a Vampyre, and I can say that my brothers and I have only recently been released, many of them in fact are not even yet aware of their true heritage. The concept that they are the children of Ishtahar is just offensive. As for Vampyres being the incarnated Nephilim, it couold be possible, but the number of Vampyres out there seems to outnumber the children the Grigori had originally.

I think the best thing we can do is ask any Vampyres who are members of this site. What do you know of your Origins and Heritage?

As far as Lilith is concerned, I have no idea who or what or where she is now. As you are all aware of, many of us are scattered to the four winds and have problems contacting each other. So I do not know if she is physically incarnate or beyond the Gateway. What I can remember of her is of a proud being, firey temper and wicked laugh. She was a force to be reckoned with, and should not have been judged so harshly.

Az


By Ishtahar Sep 16 2008 -

Thank you hun. For anyone who hasn't realised why the concept of vampires being the children of Ishtahar is offensive it is because Ishtahar's curse was that she could not HAVE children or that if she was able to bear them she would be resposible for their deaths. And it's true.... I did.

Ish


By Ellysium Sep 17 2008 -

Lilith...
In highschool, one of my close friends was very closely connected to her. At times, Lilith would even come through her, and my friend thought that she WAS Lilith on some level for a while. I think that stopped though, and she realized that Lilith was just using her in a way... To be honest, though, many things during that time period in my life were possibly a bit, screwed up, and tainted to some of the thoughts/viewpoints we had. I'm not quite sure what was truth and what wasn't.
Even though Lilith played such a big part in my life during this time, I do not know a whole lot about her, I suppose she never quite fit into my own mythology, if you will. That doesn't mean I don't think she exists, I wouldn't doubt that she does, just that I tend to operate on a different level most of the time.
I'm trying to remember what we/my friend had figured out about Lilith.. I think something about her having an army of demons, and of course there are all the legends and myths about her... And.. there was something else.. trying to remember... I think it may have involved changing the world somehow, or attacking something... and then this gets into the war we used to believe in (which may or may not be related to the war Azaz'el and Ishtahar have feelings about..) Oh, and Lilith/my friend would talk to Lucifer on occasion... um.. Trying to remember anything else that I can. I'll get back to you.
I don't know if any of this helps, as I said, it wasn't really /my/ story back then, and who knows how accurate it is.

As for vampires, I knew some in higschool (one of them 'made' the other one, apparantly). And I know of some now.. no idea about what you were wondering though.


By Dreamsend Sep 17 2008 -

Seraphyna: The Vampires/Vampyres I'm referring to are along the nature of those that we were talking about in this thread [user posted link to "Vampires..., welcome :]" in "Otherkin chat" - ARCHIVE].

Ellysium: That does help a little, actually. Especially this line:
QUOTE
"I think it may have involved changing the world somehow, or attacking something"
seems to remind of something I forgot, that I shouldn't have forgotten...

Azaz'el: The idea that all Vampyres descended from Ishtahar is unlikely at best, and Ish, I'm sorry that people have made that inference in the past.

The Vampyre community, I feel, is not so connected to the Fallen, though I don't really know... I personally feel that they came about separately. I have done research recently on ancient beings of legend, such as the Lamashtu and Lilitu of Mesopotamia, (from Wikipedia, on Lilith: "a mythological female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death. The figure of Lilith first appeared in a class of wind and storm demons or spirits as Lilitu, in Sumer, circa 4000 BC."), who are both said to be "predescessors" to vampires in various ways. So, I wonder what the rest of the community thinks.

Among the peoples on Earth, the Vampyre community is one of several important to what is coming, sooner than before. I want to know why, and where they came from, and who they are.


-- Angela


By ishtahar Sep 17 2008 -

Just a point to clarify something.

Vampires are not made. Either you are a vampire or you aren't it is like being human or being fallen or being were or whatever.... it is not a disease it is a state of being.

Ish


By Ellysium Sep 17 2008 -

QUOTE (Ishtahar @ Sep 17 2008, 04:47 PM)
"Vampires are not made. Either you are a vampire or you aren't it is like being human or being fallen or being were or whatever.... it is not a disease it is a state of being."

Yeah. That makes sense, and would explain some things.


Angela,
Glad it helped a little, I'm curious to know what it is you shouldn't have forgotten.


By Dreamsend Sep 17 2008 -

I'm also curious to know what it was. tongue.gif I know that I forgot it... and I shouldn't have, but I don't remember more, yet


By Fate Apr 15 2009 -

I'm curious what your research and/or feelings were able to tell you on this topic? Though I don't relate as a Vampyre, I've always been fascinated with them, and have been collecting books on myths, legends, science, etc on them since I was nine. I took a course in college called Vampirism in Literature, and spent a lot of time reading about the Gnostic concepts of Lilith and Lucifer because they were winged beings that resonated with me. I don't want to post something here though if you've already figured it out, but I might be able to help in some way.


By Dreamsend Apr 15 2009 -

I'm trying to remember, I should seriously have taken notes... I've basically forgotten almost everything that I was thinking about last year, but...

This is all, absolutely 100% theory, so don't quote me on any of this....

The same as there are sort of bloodlines for different sorts of non/other-than-humans around the world (and I use bloodlines literally and figuratively, sometimes it is direct descendent physically, and sometimes spiritually/indirect), I've found that vampyres fall into that group.... they may or may not have obvious energy deficiencies... and Seraphyna's post was absolutely right, that energy deficiency can result in "vampire-like tendencies", but I find that that does not, at least not alone, indicate the "true vampyre". Moreso, they have a sort of "shared ancestry" to some distant entity, or at least that's what my feelings tell me. I find that they tend to have innate abilites for energy work and tranformation and I find a sort of connection to taking the "loose energies" that float about and grounding them, whether they're conscious of it or not, that is really beneficial to the spiritual ecosystem... Their ancient ancestor is somewhat... serpentine in essence, I don't know literally or figuratively o_o And there aren't really that many of them around... but enough to make a difference.

Some of the inspiration was found from articles from people like this http://www.earthspirit.com/fireheart/fhvampire.html, and websites like drinkdeeplyanddream.

Of what you may say, Post away!! I may have "figured it out" already but I don't mind a lot of validation!!


By Fate Apr 15 2009 -

This is my initial post, since the topic is one that could be written about at length, and I am only trying to make a connection to the Vampyres in this one.

Depending on what text you refer to, Lilith was many different things. In the Bible, she was the first wife of Adam, who left when she decided that being beneath him wasn't something she felt she had to do. He whined, God sent a messenger to haul her back, and she refused. For her "impudence" she was cursed with the ability to have 1,000 children a day, but have them all murdered daily. In the Gnostic texts, she was the first of three wives Adam had, the second one never even rating a name.

In response to the curse, she was said to have decided to kill infants before their souls were secure. Hence, infant baptism. In Portugal, they lick the babies forehead three times and chant about keeping the demons at bay. In Assyrian texts, Lilitu were said to have caused men to have erotic dreams, and to be the killer of children. In Judaic tradition, an amulet is hung around the neck of infant males until they can be circumcised, to keep the lilin from taking them. In the Talmud, there are more references of men spoiling themselves at night, because of this winged demon, with long, dark hair. In Babylonian texts, she was a prostitute of Ishtar. The Sumarians considered her a handmaiden of Inanna, and here again we see her vexing men into unspeakable acts.

So how does that get us to Vampyres? Well, by causing men to succumb, she was considered a succubus. By the time she is truly seen as "evil", we're dealing with texts from societies that also viewed excretions of any kind as a form of life-loss. Add to it that they cannot explain how the loss came about, and you have a perfect setting for an evil woman that preys on the unwilling/unwary, one that is already denounced as a demon because she refused to submit to a man, and she comes from pre-Biblical sources.

In these various societies, she was linked to the Anzu bird, serpents, lions, and owls. Other attributes she managed to collect over time were: storm goddess, disease, and a demon that caused women to seek abortions.

The connection to Lucifer, the Light-Bringer, has its roots in illumination. i.e. Lillith. But, that's a whole 'nother discussion.


By Ishtahar Apr 17 2009 -

Wow!!! How the truth gets corrupted. I wonder if it was by design or ignorance.

In a kind of twisted way I suppose there is some truth there, and it kind of does fit in why my theories in the origins of vampires.... for me there has always been a strong connection between vampires and nephylim.... whether they are one and the same, a version of the same or from the same source I don't know but.... well it kind of makes sense.

The luring men into twisted sexual practices sounds interesting though... smile.gif

Ish

So I just read over this thread.

And as I read over it, I got a lot of info whispered to me. The first thing that happened was that I was reading what someone had written regarding Lilith, and then I felt her, very suddenly and very strongly.

It felt like a warm presence very energized and close to my ear, and she said "here I am child, I haven't been far off." Then she told me some things. She said "I am not and I have never been any man's wife." And I got a fleeting image of her. And then she said "I am one of the pillars of 12." I have no idea what that means but there it is.

The second thing that happened was I was reading over what someone had said about Vampyres... and I suddenly felt that this was a turning point, a moment when i could either plunge ahead into knowledge and enlightenment (and darkness) or stay stagnant and wither away. I chose darkness over stagnation and opened my mind and heard that the Vampyres (no judgment call on Vamps here... read on to the end please.) are the children of Satan. I then wondered (knowing that Lucifer and Satan are not one and the same. And we know Lucifer... but then...) what Satan is. And this is where I saw that the decision to proceed was because of who it is. At least in my understanding.... I heard that Satan is Set. Set, the Egyptian god. Kind of want to vomit as I write, I have some emotional response to ancient Egypt, always have, but especially here, towards him/it, in this context. And so I saw an image of Set, and felt his/its presence, and saw the pyramids, and then saw an image of Atlantis before it was destroyed....... And then I felt/wondered/knew that Set is somehow.... an enemy.

You know, it comes to mind that a couple of weeks or a month back I had a vision about Set in this way as an enemy - namely that Set has never been still but instead has worked ceaselessly to corrupt, destroy, enslave all that he could... out of pure malice or spite. That the true "enemy" if there's a name behind it is Set....

I know very little about the Typhon so maybe anyone out there who mows more about him, his mythology and any insights into what he represents could share it with us.

What I can remember is the strong moral lesson that his tale does offer regarding the battles and jealousies between family members....... Something we're all familiar with considering our warring brothers!!

Az

I don't know much about Set either, but Wikipedia has quite a bit of information about him, his cults, and the politics of Egypt around them here.

Some of the things which immediately jumped out at me, especially in this context, were the forked tail, and unknown creature face. As far as I know, all the other Egyptian deities were represented by instantly recognizable animal aspects, which leads me to think he may have come from somewhere else. There were also some references to his being the god of foreigners.

I really think you have something here, Dream's. I jumped all over your post as I read it; it kind of brought tears to my eyes. He was a god of chaos, and the desert, storms and darkness, who killed Osiris. Even his name sounds like the beginning of Satan. On a gut level, it really pissed me off to see him holding an ankh on the Wiki image. I want to take that away from him. Thinking in terms of how I feel about him, there's something cloyingly seductive, which I find repellent, and want to be wary of. It reminds me strongly of how I feel about vampires: the true kind, which give nothing back but corruption. The fact Horus took his balls in the fight over Osiris is a big deal to me, for some reason. To my mind, Set offers sensuality with no love, which could indeed be the enemy in a nutshell (inadvertent pun - bwahahaha!).

Aside from that, I've never known what to think about Lilith. She's always struck me as either the most villainous or glorious of women; perhaps both, which would pretty much encompass the female experience. ::evil grin:: In any case, that made me extremely happy for you, and suddenly far more respectful towards her. I don't know what the Pillars of 12 are either, but seeing that again(?) was like an electric jolt of serenity, followed by absolute certainty that at some point I'll be able to share some info about them.

Has anyone else noticed that old 'gods' of chaos have been returning for a few years now!

Az

I have noticed indeed. So too have We been awakening. The Nephilim bloodline is resurfacing, vampires, were, and many other beings are becoming more common now than ever. Cults devoted to the 200, such as the Sanctum of the Nephilim, The Grigorian Covenant, and others, are begining to arise, this is the time of Reckoning.

Whoah! There are cults devoted to the 200?

Um... heh. I can definitely see that, especially with some of the kooks I met when I was deep in pagan and goth circles, but still. I suppose it's to be expected, that people will be taking notice more and more as we wake and reclaim our former selves, but still. We are beings of power, and people venerate musicians, and actors, and athletes, but still. Weird.

That just made me think about Luciferianism in a whole new way, that I'm not exactly comfortable with.

Is it too late to trade? Anybody?

And yes, Az. Another sign, I guess, as Kurt Vonnegut would say, that the excrement is about to hit the air conditioning. I had a run-in a few years ago, with a chaos magician (idiot!) who seemed to be channeling Loki. I used to think he was kind of cool in the myths, but if that tricky bastard ever shows his face around me again, I'll re-sew his mouth shut myself!

::wanders off to contemplate the ramifications of my rising star some more::

One of my cats is called Loki. Another is called Baal, so you can see that I love playing with fire!!!

The concept of cults devoted to us is a strange one, yet like you, I have many many an eccentric human who seems drawn to only one side of our nature and creates a shrine to our anger or justice or the darker nature of how we judged. We were warriors and many latch on to that, to the exclusion of all the other apsects of who we were, of our art, our culture and music.........and so on.

Linking in to a much older topic, lets not forget that there are many, many people in the world who adopt our names and stand saying they are the one true (insert name here)...... bugger off and find your own name!!

Az

Man, you do like to tempt the cosmos; especially cats!

That's got to be annoying, to have to deal with someone insisting they're the one true you. The funny thing is, I actually have not (yet) come across anyone else claiming to be what everything keeps telling me I am. I keep wondering if that's a good or bad thing. ::

Quote :

Some of the things which immediately jumped out at me, especially in this context, were the forked tail, and unknown creature face. As far as I know, all the other Egyptian deities were represented by instantly recognizable animal aspects, which leads me to think he may have come from somewhere else. There were also some references to his being the god of foreigners.

I really think you have something here, Dream's. I jumped all over your post as I read it; it kind of brought tears to my eyes. He was a god of chaos, and the desert, storms and darkness, who killed Osiris. Even his name sounds like the beginning of Satan. On a gut level, it really pissed me off to see him holding an ankh on the Wiki image.

Thanks, Scratch. It bothers me too to see him holding the ankh, on a gut level. It seems like a gloating sort of triumph...
I'm not sure what I think about the whole Isis, Osiris, Set story... I feel that a lot of that is the myth that sprung up around the actual beings. But I do think that he is a force that was extremely powerful in those times, as well as Isis. I don't know what to think about Osiris, actually... the last few years that I've come across and read the story he's been the main one that hasn't resonated with me on any level... it's possible, in my mind, that he didn't really exist, but was made up later... Isis, Set, Horus resonate personally... as well as Nepthys (sp), Thoth, Anubis.... Sekhmet and Ra.

As for whether Lilith is the most villainous or glorious of women... I should say both, after my encounter with her!!!! And she, I believe... knows it well!!!

I would be interested in learning more about the Pillars of 12 should you come upon that knowledge again(?) =D

Have the gods of chaos been awakening? Or have we just started to see and notice them more? Perhaps they were waiting on the other side of the veil all along for us =\

Peace and Love,

Here I believe may or may not lie the key to the answer! Throughout the ages they were referred to as the twelve pillars representing the gods names given them. However each religion has changed the names or produced new meanings and abandoning and tossing away the old ones throughout the centuries adding summarily subtle changes to the location, names and meanings!

One must surmise that throughout history that to peace meal the whole thing together would come from viable inside sources that we still do not have access too as of yet!

http://www.universetoday.com/15568/how-many-planets-are-in-the-solar-system/

http://www.universetoday.com/36436/12-planets/http://www.universetoday.com/36436/12-planets/

Ouza

Now that you mention it Dream's, I always saw Osiris as being the "Egyptian Christ-figure," which doesn't make any sense in the time line. Likewise, though I know it was common practice among royalty, I really cannot see Isis marrying a brother. I do think Horus was her son, and don't think Set actually succeeded in putting out his eye. You're right: in my mind's eye, the rest resonate, but Osiris feels like one of those paperboard movie characters standing among them.

That's a good theory, Ouza, in regards to scope and influence, but it strikes me as symbolic. Perhaps that is what you were getting at, but I think the Pillars were/are something different than gods; more along the lines of the Endless, if you've read the Sandman comics. Perhaps Lilith is the Divine Feminine everyone keeps referring to, without seeming to know what exactly that is. I just had the thought, another name for them could be the Essentials: they could be the essence of femininity, or fire, or gravity. Something like that.

Could be, you never ever really know for sure! Although, I can accept the fact of Isis marrying her brother which was quite common even among the humans at that time. In every royal family through out history people were either cousins or brothers or sister of same blood and family from birth. So it was common back then!

Ouza

In Thailand and Chine there could be many many concubines but only one had to be of royal blood and male to ascend to King or emperor! If us why not the Gods since the whole scenario was supposedly based on them seen as the Progenitors of Mankind!

Ouza

Got the sudden urge to reread this ...

[boy, that period just before Samhuin was charged, huh??? lol....]

this struck me as true:

Scratch wrote:

I just had the thought, another name for them could be the Essentials: they could be the essence of femininity, or fire, or gravity. Something like that.

...now that I've been not thinking about it for a while, and came back to it. ...One of the things that has been really prevalent with me recently is visions of goddesses/women gathering. Gathering to do... something.

Ashtart

I posted on this thread a million (ok, really just a couple) of years ago, on the Fate name I used back then. I hadn't really read it since, and it's interesting that I should find it again on the anniversary of the last reply. It's interesting because I discovered new pieces to the puzzle in the book I mentioned elsewhere on the board: Legends of the Fire Spirits, as well as one I'm rereading, The Historical Mary.

It all boils down to the notion of transubstantian, my own path of Collyridianism, and the use of halos (crowns), ankhs (sceptors), and thrones in mythology, the Bible, and the notion of kingship throughout the Middle East and Europe. I finally feel like I'm having my moment that I have been researching and meditating on for about twenty years. Now, it's just getting them all fitted together in a coherent sequence so others can read it.

From what I understand, vampires are verious ....they all differ from 'bloodline'(which god created them), to causation(they/someone messed up thier chakra system-soul doesnt 'fit'), even that vampires are Gods, 'vampire' is just another word for it(all gods are obsessed with some kind of worship. what is worship but giving your energy to another being...) even reptilian creatres are said to be vampires....

Apollo and Artemis accidentally created a vampire.
Set has vampires.
Lillith has vampires.
Kali has vampires.(you wont find this in myth, its a memory I had of her)

Not to mention the various undead god/desses out there.

Its quite the complicated 'kin type.

Personally I like the Apollo, Artemis myth. Where this guy falls for one of Apollos devoted followers, and so Apollo punishes him by making it painful to be in the sun(his domain). Artemis tries to help him by giving him her silver bow, but he takes off with it to give to Hades ... before he can she curese him with not being able to touch silver...but when he explains Hades and his evil plan, she forgives the guy and grants him amazing skills of a hunter(fangs, super strength and speed) so he can go get his woman. Its quite the fun tale.

Hmmm...

Sagehawk, that theory vibes a lot with me... because I think that that helps to explain the reasons that different vamps seem to have different... well, the word I want to use is "hearts." To me, different types of beings have what appears to be very similar energies at their "cores" around the heart chakra for most if not all. Different vamps all look vampiric to me, but some may vibe with an attraction towards one sort of energy - which if it's a different god or goddess energy, a different source of origination of their own core hearts - makes a lot of sense to me.

Talking about energy >< still getting used to it, hope this is coherent...

Also, that Apollo Artemis thing is awesome.

Ashtart wrote:

Hmmm...

Sagehawk, that theory vibes a lot with me... because I think that that helps to explain the reasons that different vamps seem to have different... well, the word I want to use is "hearts." To me, different types of beings have what appears to be very similar energies at their "cores" around the heart chakra for most if not all. Different vamps all look vampiric to me, but some may vibe with an attraction towards one sort of energy - which if it's a different god or goddess energy, a different source of origination of their own core hearts - makes a lot of sense to me.

Talking about energy >< still getting used to it, hope this is coherent...

Also, that Apollo Artemis thing is awesome.

Oh yeah what you said makes sense... energy is hard to talk about and put in to words but I find that if the other person you are talking too is 'awake' to it, they seem to know exactly what you mean. Where as if not they look at you confused and no matter how you try they wont get it. lol

but yes I know what you mean about vampires having different 'feels' to them. A lot of vampires I've met talk about a sort of 'vampire radar' thing where you just know if some one is one(like gaydar haha). but Ive always had a probelm telling because even all vampires seem to feel different from each other. Some are down right repelling, and others just the opposite.

Short post, as I am between appointments at the moment. I have a leaning toward Lilith, Lucifer, and Set as a vampiric set, but only in terms of deities (or what can be construed as deities). Many of the djinn, especially those that did not choose Islam, are workers for the goals of these three, main, beings.

Vampires as otherkin, to me, is a whole 'nother can of worms. I think I posted it earlier in this thread, but I see them as an amalgamation of people with mental health disorders, blood disorders or they are actually a different being with vampiric traits (feeding off either blood, energy or both).

The memories of Kali as vampire would make sense, considering the Hindu stories contain information on the bhuta and vetala. My next appt is here, so I can't elaborate on those terms, but Google will give you a quick idea of what they are.

I love the Apollo Artemis myth. I might just use that in my writing at some time

THank you for sharing.

Quote :

Oh yeah what you said makes sense... energy is hard to talk about and put in to words but I find that if the other person you are talking too is 'awake' to it, they seem to know exactly what you mean. Where as if not they look at you confused and no matter how you try they wont get it. lol

That sums up my life more or less.

@Veil,

The definition of vampyres is (getting) so tricky. Ishtahar brought up a point in another thread that many beings that may not be vamp have tendencies to feed anyway.

Can you tell us what bhuta and vetala are now?

I know this i a old thread, but vampires can be made. Well there's a demonic council I am sure of that has that ability to do that to a willing soul. There is also something a vampire friend of mine learned and took into effect that if he drains a person of their energy he in turns sends his energy out to them, from their it I guess "overrides" and will initiate the vampire change. He calls it the Vampiric overlay/hooking. He's tested it on a few of his willing friends.

As with the council I have met a old demonic council member that still retains that ability in the body he's in now.